Equal does not mean the SAME in every way. That’s very important. Equal does NOT mean that men and women are the same. Equal doesn’t mean that there may not be specific distinctions on one or more levels. So in using the term, egalitarian, one is not necessarily saying there aren’t male/female distinctions.
God could make women inferior. He really could. I believe that, and I believe that if HE did it, then it wouldn’t be wrong. The only thing wrong would be our perception of it (if we didn’t like it), because God is God—the way He sees things is the best way to see them, the way HE wants it is the best way, etc… I totally totally totally believe this (and this is why I did not have a problem with the idea of being made for the sole purpose of supporting a man). If that is what God made me for, then that is a very honorable role for me to have. Just as the horny toad glorifies God by BEING a a horny toad, right, so will I glorify Him by being WHATEVER it is I was designed to be. If that’s someone who is inferior to males, then so be it.
BUT…and here’s where it gets sticky for me… Do we *know* that women are inferior? Do we *know* that man was made for ruling and reigning, and woman was made to help him however he deems he needs her help (essentially meaning, her man would define her purpose).
And there’s where we have to go to Scripture and read it carefully. There are a few things we can know for sure.
First, that man’s “rule” over woman started at the Fall.
This part following is conjecture, but I think it’s a fairly possible thing to pull out of what we *do* know: Somehow, after the Fall, he saw her as someone inferior, someone needing ruled. But that doesn’t mean she actually DID need ruled, or that she actually WAS inferior. That’s just the way he saw her…possibly because she was weaker in strength, and weakness has tended to be a negative trait after the Fall. ?
In any case, she was willing to let her identity be the way he saw her, because they had both lost that connection to God that they once had in the Garden… Women are so amazingly wired to be relational…(I’m reading a great book on relational psychology right now—did you know that it wasn’t until 1975 that psychologists finally started believing incest stories? Up till that year, they were told that the actual amount of TRUE incest cases were one in a million, so do NOT believe the crazy woman who’s claiming that nasty stuff about her father/uncle/brother…)..
Anyways, women function via relationships. It just makes a lot of sense, given that her primary relationship would be her husband, that she would take on HIS view of her. She is wired to relate, to not be alone, to be connected, to be in communion with…so if he says, “If you want to make me happy, you need to… [fill inthe blank, whether it be wear a veil, or accept my latest wife, or fix my food, or WHATEVER], she is wired to need his acceptance and approval…and plus, she wants him happy…so she does it…and then her daughters do it…and, eventually, it becomes tradition, things “good women” do.
This is NOT saying that men are evil beasts and women are helplessly under their power. Women are just as fallen as men are, just as messed up–”all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” The Fall affected BOTH men and women in negative ways, both suffer under it’s breath, perhaps differently in some ways, but certainly equally. And that this is the way life is on this planet should be no more surprise to us than any other fallen aspects of this world. Missing the mark is the NORMATIVE behaviour of humans outside of God. That sin happens is normal, that the strong oppress the weak is NORMAL, that we can’t see outside of our own viewpoint/experience/skin-color/gender/etc is NORMAL…
So not all women are going to have the same experiences, no. Life is so huge and muddled with our own particular surroundings and family and culture, etc… But the question isn’t if everything is the same, rather, it’s if women are actually *designed* to be inferior to men. This is different from particular circumstances, because it’s a question of essence.
We have to go to the Scriptures. What is woman there? What is she in the beginning, before sin, and what is she in the end, when sin is destroyed?
When Adam sees Eve, does he make an exclamation that would lead us to learn that Eve is inferior?
No. If anything, we see unity. He sees her as like him. He exclaims, “flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone!”
In the beginning, we see woman as beautiful, as treasured, as a partner in dominion-taking, as a Queen.
When we close the Bible, who do we see beckoning us on the last page? “The Spirit and the Bride say, Come.” Who is this Bride? And who is this that she is working with? Not angels, not human kings, but the Spirit Himself. Like Wisdom, she calls to those on the outside and beckons them to come in. She is radiant, beautiful. Inferior is a word that is far from my tongue when I think of her. She is His Bride.
“Who is she that looketh forth as the morning, fair as the moon, clear as the sun, and terrible as an army with banners?” (Song of Songs 6:10).
At the end, we see woman as beautiful, as treasured, as a partner in dominion-taking, as a Queen.
I don’t know all the particulars. I don’t know for certain how this is all supposed to look, is what I’m trying to say. But what I *do* know is that woman was NOT designed to be a glorified secretary and baby-maker. Just because history, including Biblical history, has been patriarchal does NOT mean that this was God’s initial intention. It’s simply something that exists in a fallen world.
“Moses allowed this because of the hardness of your own hearts, but in the beginning, it was not so.”

















Posted by molleth on November 2, 2006 at 11:21 am
The font is all messed up on my computer, but if I highlight it with a right=click, then it appears… Weird!
Posted by molleth on November 2, 2006 at 11:22 am
Okay. FINE. Back to the old look.
Posted by sim on November 2, 2006 at 12:40 pm
This is great.
Interestingly, when I did some study earlier this year in preparation for a Bible Study look into Ephesians, it was clear in the old commentaries that I read, that NT Christianity was profoundly revolutionary for first century Christians, in terms of the role of women.
In Jewish culture, women were not usually allowed to own property, and while husbands could easily divorce women, women could not divorce their husbands. The Jewish were the kindest to women.
In the Greek culture, women were secluded, and excluded from public life. Husbands typically had many coutesians for the purpose of pleasure, while wives were there for the raising of the children. Divorce was common, and fidelity non-existent.
In Roman culture,women could, and did, frequently divorce. There was no stability in relationships – marriage was temporary, the atmosphere was adulterous.
Then along came Jesus, and then Paul, who gave a radicaly different view of women. Women are equal with men – deserving of dignity and honour, something which was not often practiced in the ancient world. Everywhere the Gospel has reached, life for women has improved (in a missionary sense). No longer are they items of property, but people in their own right, loved by God the same as men.
I think in our post-feminist world, we can easily believe the stories that have been fed to us by the feminist movement – that women have been considered unequal, and it is our modern right to fight against that. I don’t beleive that women, in the context of NT Christianity, have been considered unequal. Different. Not inferior.
That’s my ramblings for the morning. Possibly slightly off track
Posted by Corrie on November 2, 2006 at 12:59 pm
Great post and good thoughts! It is refreshing to read thoughts that really seek to understand scripture apart from the traditions of men.
Posted by Bryan Riley on November 2, 2006 at 3:27 pm
Fantastic thoughts. We are equally made in His image. That alone says a lot to me, but I also think it is key to examine closely Genesis 1 and 2. In those passages I only see equality. It is not until the fall, as you say, that we see a change. So, I think a natural conclusion one can draw is that God’s design was for equality. Sin was the distorting influence.
Posted by molleth on November 2, 2006 at 6:07 pm
Sim, it is so true—the way women have been treated is all over the map, really, but patriarchy has been the norm all through history. It differs in form and shape, though, including in one particular society–it depends on what town you are talking about and what time period… Kind of like the US… I mean, I wouldn’t try to describe the way asian-Americans are treated in the USA by saying my own experiences are THE way they are treated. It would depend on where, what, and what time period, etc…and it would require a whole LOT of stories put together to make up any sort of general picture…and even then, that will only and ever be a *general* picture. Complicated!
Corrie, thanks. I realized when I read your comment that I hadn’t put your link up yet (sorry!). Got that fixed. THen I had to go over and read your posts…always good stuff, as usual…
Bryan, appreciating your comments! Personally, I’m not sure if Adam did or did not have equal authority. All I know for SURE is that Eve was not created as inferior, and that God’s intent is not for women to be viewed as inferiors, as lesser humans to be defined by their male “heads.”
I’m cool with Adam having a a greater responsibility, IF that’s God’s design (IF is crucial there), *as long as* it’s defined and described correctly (as in, as long as we’re not taking the effects of the Fall and the then-seen patriarchy as God’s initial desire, and as godly practice and thought). Meaning, if Adam is king, that’s great…as long as we are saying that Eve is queen, and as long as we are defining “leadership” the way that Jesus did.
Seems like AFTER the Fall, Adam’s are seen as king and Eve’s are usually seen as …subordinate inferior assistants (the way that *looks* differs, but history bears out the general truth of the statement).
The thing that many patriarchal/complimentarian people don’t understand, unfortunately, is that saying the above does NOT cause rebellion or disrespect, not if a person understands the “law” of Christians (love God, love others). To say she is a full human being, NOT an inferior lesser-than, FREES women to love freely, to honor freely. It liberates them to be a full human being, giving them the FREEDOM to respect, defer to, and love not because that is her duty, but for the sake of Love.
Posted by Nathan Bubna on November 2, 2006 at 7:07 pm
I only had time to skim the post, but this statement jumped out:
“…weakness has tended to be a negative trait after the Fall.”
I wholeheartedly agree. And it’s a shame for so many reasons i’d love to go into but haven’t the time…
Posted by molleth on November 2, 2006 at 7:57 pm
Well, when you find the time, let me know–I’d love to hear your thoughts. It’s been something that has been reverberating through me for the past few months…especially as I’ve been hanging out in the Gospels and watching Jesus do this…I don’t know what to call it…do this revolution of His, a totally *other* way of thinking, doing, being…
Posted by Joshua Case on November 3, 2006 at 2:52 am
molleth-
thanks for the post. I think its well developed and i deeply value your return to the Bible as a narrative for input, story, and thought.
However, one of the areas where I often struggle to follow is when people point back to “sin” as normal for today. You ask a right question when you point to what woman is “in the beginning” and when “sin is destroyed at the end”. Yet, that we ought to expect sin as normative behavior now often feels like a opt-out on things.
I wonder often if that’s not part of the lie of sin in our world today; that though we see through a mirror dimly, we believe the image of imperfection to be truer than the image of new creation. And for many, the image of sin-filled normal-life now is easier to accept that the pursuit of plotting goodness that builds or grows new creation now.
I don’t know. Still processing myself; however, I can’t believe the resurrection story of Christ makes it ok to say that prejudice, injustice, and poverty exist today. NO WAY!! Because of the ressurection of Jesus of Nazareth, I have to say: THEY SHOULDN’T EXIST, THEY SHOULDN’T EXIST!!!
Posted by MInTheGap on November 3, 2006 at 5:12 am
Hey Molleth, good analysis. I don’t think, however, that there are many out there that truly believe that women are inferior, but have traits that do not make them suited for leadership.
I think that you pointed this out well in the section where you detailed that women are relational and derive meaning by their relationships. I know this is speaking generally, but this would naturally cause a woman to accept something that would not be good simply because the relationship validated it.
Also, I don’t know that you went far enough looking at the beginning (before sin) and the end (after sin). Prior to the fall, we see that the reason that Eve was created was two fold: That Adam was alone and that Eve was to be his helpmeet. She was created to satisfy his loneliness and to help him– not to be his equal or lead him.
Now, I do believe that when sin came into play, that’s when God needed to set up rules about who would be the ultimate decision maker, etc., because sin effected humanity totally. I don’t disagree with that at all.
But, if you look both at the Song of Solomon (supposedly a picture of the relationship between Christ and His bride) and the end of time I think it’s a tad different than you suggest.
In SOS we see a relationship where the king protects and cares for a woman. They are one flesh, they are one in desire for another, but as far as places go, he is the king and she is a queen– but a lesser role.
I think that if you say that in the eternal kingdom that the bride and Christ are equal that’s scary. In my mind that gets close to saying that we will be as God. It is true that we will be like Him, for we will be able to see Him as He is, but we will not be gods.
In any extent– good musings.
Posted by Laura on November 3, 2006 at 5:27 am
I have nothing intelligent to add – just wanted to tell you I’ve been enjoying your thoughts on this subject! It’s all very interesting (all your reading and thoughts) and it seems I was raised with very similar beliefs behind men being the head of…well, everything.
Leaving me confused as I read through the Bible and finding women leaders and places where God used women to lead men to where He wanted them. Good stuff Molly!
Posted by Sarah on November 3, 2006 at 10:49 am
Hi! I love this topic, even though it totally confuses me. One thought that comes to my mind: I Cor. 14:35 ” If there is anything [women] desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.” To me, the verse indicates that the roles a woman plays in the church are different from the roles a woman plays in her marriage/home. Her relationship to her husband is different than just the male/female relationship. She has a certain freedom, or equality, with her husband that is not present with all christian men. And it also suggests a certain amount of deference of women to male leadership. However, if you look at the first part of this chapter, you see Paul talking about love, using your gifts, etc. and there he doesn’t make any distinction between male and female. The part of the chapter where he makes the distinction is talking about the worship assembly, and it is saying that it is for the sake of order. So to me, that means that essentially men and women are equal in their value to the church, but that they just have different roles within the church.
Posted by Bryan Riley on November 3, 2006 at 1:01 pm
I so agree with your insight, too, Molly. God is God, and we are not, so IF He did design it a certain way, and we are to trust in Him, clearly it is OK and the best and, well, Praise God!