As I fumble my way out of patriarchy, I find myself asking certain questions—not so much coming to conclusions, just questioning former conclusions and admitting holes where I find them. Even that is painful. So many people think that questioning patriarchy is only something “feminists” do (feminist being the conservative Christian version of the f-word). They fail to realize that some of us who question are doing so because we want God, because we want to be faithful to His Word, because we want to be sure we are rightly comprehending His heart.
This is an interesting article, the author finding the focal point of Christianity’s message to male/female issues to be one-ness, not division (seperate and distinct gender “roles”), but the complementarian rebuttal is that the genders find one-ness by operating in seperate spheres on a heirarchal plane.
This article is not particularly Christian in world-view, however I found it germane to the discussion, especially in light of what it appears God said the effect of the Fall would do to male/female relationships. The (I believe Fall-based) trend is almost catagorically a downward slide into silencing women, and rarely the reverse. A quote from the article (I’m not sure how accurate it is, but it’s interesting even if only half true),
The Prophet Mohammed, for example, was anxious to emancipate women and they were among his first converts. The Koran teaches that men and women have exactly the same responsibilities and duties, and gives women rights of inheritance and divorce that we would not enjoy in the west until the 19th century. There is nothing in the Koran about the veiling of all women or their confinement in harems. This practice came into Islam some three or four generations after the Prophet, under the influence of the Greek Christians of Byzantium, who had long covered and secluded their women in this way.
Bear with me because I do actually have a point. The complementarian says that they have the right view of female subjection, and that non-Christian patriarchy, while correctly deducing that men rule, skews the proper application of male rule. I must add that this is what I formerly believed and taught. In other words, as patriarchalists/complimentarians/subordinationalists (or whatever term you want to use), male rule is not what we question, simply how the male ought to rule.
But would it be fair to suggest (and, importantly, to do so from a Scriptural standing) that perhaps female subjection itself is a product of the Fall? That the “right” for one gender to rule over the other (cruelly or kindly) is the result of the Fall, not the result of initial design.
That would certainly help explain patriarchy’s well-fed existance in almost every single human social structure known in the history of human beings.
These are the kind of questions rolling around in my head, and, yes, I am aware of the complementarian position that female subordination is part of woman’s inherent design. I am also aware that the general complementarian/patriarchal position is that God’s words regarding the Fall, “and he shall rule over you,” is actually talking about how he will now rule cruely (and how she will constantly try to unrighteously rebel), but can I add that after spending ample hours burrowing around in Genesis 1-3, not to mention considering the undeniable story of human history (where women rarely rebel to being subjected, even to the most humiliating patriarchal decrees [burqu-wearing, female circumcision!], all in order to keep their relationships with men alive), I feel I can no longer support that conclusion.
I think the Fall caused a good thing to go South. I realize I am speaking in generalities, but perhaps it’s safe to say that men tend to like to have power/status more than women do (testosterone being the “drive to dominate” hormone) and women tend to think relationally more than men do.
So after the Fall, when human nature seemed to be stuck seeing self as the fulcrum of the universe, would it be more likely that men would turn that drive to dominate onto anything that appears weak (women), and would women, eager to relate, be more likely to seek to preserve their relationships at all costs, even when they must stuff a part of themselves down in the process? And could it be that the drive to win and the drive to relate were initially supposed to intermingle gently, wonderously, complimentarily, and the two-made-one were supposed to fulfill their God-given mandate to rule together, King and Queen, instead of ruling or being ruled by eachother?
There is another problem with the complementarian’s setting aside of,”and he shall rule over you.” They assert that all it means is ”he will now abuse you.” The problem? Well, in Hebrew, that’s not what it’s saying.
The “rule” is a basic word for “have authority over,” not abuse or cruelly dominate. It simply means what it says—to rule. And if that is true, then that means male rule would be in the same catagory as pain in childbirth and the frustration of working in a world where weeds are ever-overtaking—things that are products of the Fall, not derived from the inherant God-formed design of Adam and Eve.
The word used in, “and he shall rule over you,” is the same word used in Genesis 1 for the sun ruling over the day. Mashal (Strongs #4910) is a prime root and simply means to rule, to make to or have dominion, or to have power.
So maybe it is Scriptural to question whether or not men were designed by God to rule over women. Maybe it’s Scriptural to wonder if patriarchy is God’s atual Divine intention for humankind. Maybe it’s Scriptural to wonder if our differences were designed to compliment eachother, to bless and benefit eachother, so that we could rule together instead of eachother.


















Posted by Light M. on January 9, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Molly, as I was reading your post, I kept punctuating it with, “Yes!” “Yes!” “Yes!” “Exactly!” “That’s right!” You see, my own journey away from hierarchical complementarianism several years ago led me to the exact same conclusions you bring up in this post. Are you sure you aren’t living in my brain, LOL? That’s all I have time for now, but I will read the links you provided as well and perhaps be back for more later.
Posted by Catez on January 9, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Molly,
I see a difference between patriarchalists/complementarians/subordinationalists. many complementarians are not into the patriarchy movement/teaching (such as VF) at all.
I’m not clear if when you say you are coming out of patriarchy you mean the VF type teaching.
I don’t see a problem with asking questions. My conclusions differ a bit from yours, but I wouldn’t say don’t search these things out. How else will you discover?
Posted by Catez on January 9, 2007 at 3:52 pm
Sorry – meant to and this on the Qu’ran piece – it’s true the Qu’ran doesn’t say women should be veiled. It’s not true that Mohammed was great toward women though. The Qu’ran doesn’t give them equal rights – it has provision for men to beat their wives for being difficult. I have read the Qu’ran and women are idealised in one way and really very disempowerd in many others.
Posted by molleth on January 9, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Light, that is really interesting. It seemed when I started asking these questions, I was all alone, but the further out I get, the more I discover that these questions (that I thought were new) have been asked by many men and women before me, and many are asking them now, along with me…a painful path, narrow, but it’s comforting to know that I am not so totally alone.
.
Catez, there are differences, I totally agree, but I think it may be safe to use the terms interchangeably when we are discussing male rule, because the essential position of all the camps is that men are designed to be leaders, and women are designed as assistants (not to lead, but to assist the leader, therefore are included in the things that he rules over). The differences between the camps are simply how it is applied/lived.
Posted by Julie on January 9, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Molly,
I came to similar conclusions in my blog entry yesterday.
I hadn’t paid a lot of attention to Visions Forum until I read about the controversy on Mommy Life. When I read the tenet of patriarchy, I had a great response to their theology. “Uh… NOT!”
Posted by molleth on January 9, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Wow, Julie, that was a great post!
Posted by Keer on January 9, 2007 at 4:28 pm
TOTALLY agree with you Molls!
LOL I would LOVE to hear your take of CTBHHM now.
Posted by molleth on January 9, 2007 at 4:29 pm
*blush, blush*
Posted by Joanna on January 9, 2007 at 5:11 pm
I read Julie’s post at her blog (mentioned above) and I’m having trouble with this thread-with what Julie and Molly both wrote.
I don’t understand what you two are saying-are you saying women should be senators and possibly even President? Should they be leaders over men? What is the difference between what you two are saying and what VF teaches?
I’m not understanding the difference.
Posted by molleth on January 9, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Hm. I’m not sure if I am understanding your question…but I’ll try to answer it (for myself, not for Julie).
.
I’m questioning whether men were made to rule over women. I’m suggesting that perhaps both genders were designed to compliment eachother and to rule jointly over creation (not for men to rule women, OR for women to rule men).
.
(This would allow for male or female presidents, if one looks at this politically as you asked, because the issue of rule would have little to do with gender, but more to do with aptitude and ability).
.
VF teaches that men were made by God to rule (and women to be ruled by men). Not only do they apply this in the home, but they teach it is also applied to things outside the home, believing that women are best kept out of the public sphere in all areas concerning leadership, and that it is NOT generally appropriate for a woman to have leadership over a man, whether that be in the Senate or simply in managerial positions in our local grocery store.
.
I am suggesting that VF’s view is not fully supported by Scripture.
Posted by Psalmist on January 9, 2007 at 5:40 pm
We human beings love our hierarchies, don’t we? There’s a turn of phrase several times in the comments so far, “leadership *over*,” that is telling. We “stack” our relationships, so that the leader is “over” the led. Yet not every type of leadership is hierarchical. Some of the most effective leaders work alongside those they lead and are the antithesis of “authoritarian” “top-downward” leaders.
I believe it comes from our importing a very worldly understanding of authority, which is essentially power over another, into our Christian relationships (which are supposed to be unities, emulating Christ and the Church, and the Persons of the Triune God). We keep asking the wrong question: “Who’s in charge,” when we ought to be asking, “What must I do to build up the unity that is my church/marriage/family/group/workplace,” etc.
IMO, if ANYbody other than the Lord Jesus Christ is perceived to be “over” another, somebody’s head’s still rooted in the world. Don’t get me wrong; that IS the way the world does things, and thus we freely hand power over us to our elected leaders and even our fellow Christians who work the power game that way. We’re ALL supposed to be servants of all. Not just the women (wink).
Posted by Light M. on January 9, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Molly, if one believes that men are ontologically leaders/initiators and women are ontologically subordinate/responders, then it is a natural and logical conclusion that women should not ever hold any position in which men are subordinate under her. I think that soft complementarians are actually more illogical than hard comps (or hard patriarchalists) in that they think the rules only apply in marriage and in church.
Of course, this belief (that males are designed to initiate/lead, and women to respond) leads to all kinds of complications in real life. Taken to its logical conclusion, women must be completely segregated from public life, lest at some point they act inappropriately authoritative – instructing a taxi driver on where to go, for instance, or telling the gardner to prune the roses. (There’s a name for this phenomenon of gender segregation, by the way – it’s called Islam.)
Posted by molleth on January 9, 2007 at 6:27 pm
I’ve actually read Piper talk about how a woman needs to be careful not to act authoritatively—-giving the example of a man asking her for directions and how the woman needs to take care to give those directions in a way that lets him know she knows her place and does not desire to dominate him.
.
Obviously I am ALL for giving directions to someone while respecting them (male or female, does it matter?)—it’s just that whole thing of going around in the world always keeping in mind the gender heirarchy. This is supposedly Christian? I think it’s possible that it might just be patriarchy in one of it’s many (MANY, historically) forms.
Posted by Light M. on January 9, 2007 at 6:41 pm
The example about asking for directions has become a huge joke in my circles because it really is so absurd. I mean, someone asks you for directions, and either you are courteous, or you’re not.
What Piper’s perspective does is require you to stop and think about every single interaction with another human being as a gendered interaction. It’s not enough to speak with kindness, thoughtfulness, respect, etc. … no, in Piper’s world, every response must be first filtered through the lens of gender, and adapted accordingly.
I just don’t see that anywhere in the Bible!
Posted by chewymom on January 9, 2007 at 6:57 pm
Hey Molly, This is so cool that you are blogging about this! My husband and I are thinkng through all of this as well. Our Sunday School class just finished a marriage book that just did not sit right with us, and although I don’t know exactly what term would best be used to “define” us, we definitely have always worked together best when we see ourselves as a team working side-by-side.
I’m glad you put this into understandable words. Although it is in my brain, I don’t think I could get it onto my blog in a manner that made any kind of sense! And I’m glad we’re kindred spirits in this as well!
Posted by Psalmist on January 9, 2007 at 7:03 pm
Light, Molly, that’s exactly the problem: EVERYTHING is about whether one is male or female, when the hard-core hierarchalists’ principles are put into everyday practice. You can’t simply relate to a fellow human being *as a human being,* because you HAVE to observe all the silly little rules about whether you’re male or female, and whether the person you’re relating to is male or female, so as to protect the masculinity of the man. Funny, really, how nobody really talks about teaching the men to deal appropriately with the women. They just sidestep that as much as possible with the whole “address the woman through her husband or her father” principle. (sigh)
I know you know about the (Christian!) guy who says the relationship between God and creation is all about sex. Really, I think that kind of ridiculousness is what happens when people obsess over male vs. female so much. Whatever happened to “I’m human, you’re human, God is God”? IMO, our shared humanity is more important than our gender. Not that gender is UNimportant, merely that humanity is MORE important. And if we’re dealing respectfully with a fellow human being, it shouldn’t matter that he or she is male or female. We won’t be showing disrespect to the other person. Kind of like the whole myth that “men need respect and women need love.” No, human beings all need both respect and love. It’s not nearly as complicated as folks make it out to be.
Jesus apparently understood this thoroughly. “Do to others as you would have others do to you.” “Love your neighbor as yourself.” In addition to loving God with all we’ve got, treating others this way means we’re obeying all the commandments. There are no pink vs. blue commandments, at least none from God. (I’ve checked.)
Posted by Joanna on January 9, 2007 at 7:13 pm
But I’m not convinced yours is either. Not yet anyway.
This “complementary ” view could also be called, if I’m correct (and I’m new at all this) “egalitarianism”-is this right? Are both the same, just different words?
I followed VF for a year or two, as well as read “Patriarch” magazine in the 90’s. I have had the gender roles, the traditional roles, whatever you label it/them, burned so deeply into my psyche that this conversation is very uncomfortable and troubling to me.
I’m afraid this may all be a reaction to the abuse some Christians have suffered at the hands of teachings such as from those sources above. I still read Lady Lydia and I agree with her.
So, I guess I disagree with y’all so far. I am going to need WAY more convincing (from God’s Word of course) to change the way I’ve been taught for the past 10+ years.
I’m all ears.
Posted by molleth on January 9, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Well, Joanna, “complementarianism” is another form of patriarchy. It’s the form espoused by Wayne Grudem and John Piper and explained here:

http://cbmw.com
.
Vision Forum promotes a slightly different form, but in it’s fundamental bones, it’s the same: “men were made to be the leaders and women were made to be the followers.”
.
Egalitarianism is (I’m not sure if I am one of these or not, but here is my best understanding of it’s essential position) the belief that men and women are different, sure, but that one gender should not rule over the other.
.
This conversation was deeply troubling to me, too, way back when it started inside of myself. I hated it. It is quite possibly one of the most traumatizing thing I’ve ever had happen to me, and that includes it being on par with the death of a brother.
.
I cannot begin to tell you what it has been like for me…just like a death…but yet I have felt like the One stirring up the questions in my heart was not my own rebellion, but Jesus, and most of it coming straight from Scripture. I had been so trained to read Scripture from a patriarchal perspective that I was unable to see it any other way without Divine intervention. Well, it’s either Divine or I’m totally decieved, one or the other, which is something I pray for (for truth and not deception) daily!
.
I will say that I’m not here to *convince* anyone…I’m just talking about things I’m thinking about…that’s what my blog is for…sort of free psychotherapy of sorts. lol…
.
I will also add that I think the highest law is that of Love, as mentioned throughout the NT, and that I believe that trumps patriarchy or egalitarianism or any other whatever-there-is. Love is what is to rule us, so as a wife, I am called to love and honor my husband (whether I’m patriarchal or egalitarian or upside-down-fruitcake).
.
And I also believe that Love respects the decisions of others, so I don’t feel the need to *fight* those who disagree with me — even though I do enjoy talking/thinking/mulling over my former patriarchal beliefs and why I do not find them compatible with what I am currently understanding of God. I think that’s very different from saying that “God’s highest mandate is to “NOT” be patriarchal and that everyone patriarchal is not a “true” Christian.”
.
In other words, I enjoy thinking, but my boxing gloves aren’t on. Meaning, I can fully respect you, even if we choose to disagree. Love frees us to do that.
.
If you’d like to read previous thoughts about women, hit the catagories section on my sidebar, the one that says, On Women. There’s a ton of posts there, if you want to pick my brain’s development on the issue. Though I fully understand if you don’t want to get that close to my brain—HAHAHAHAHAAAAAA! lol…
Posted by Wayne Leman on January 9, 2007 at 8:19 pm
Molly, you wrote:
“So after the Fall, when human nature seemed to be stuck seeing self as the fulcrum of the universe, would it be more likely that men would turn that drive to dominate onto anything that appears weak (women), and would women, eager to relate, be more likely to seek to preserve their relationships at all costs, even when they must stuff a part of themselves down in the process?”
I note your emphasis in this post on women being “eager to relate”. That’s also what God said before he talked about the man ruling over the woman: “yet your desire shall be for your husband” (Gen. 3:16). In some of the reading I have done lately, it claims that both are the result of the fall. God did not curse Adam and Eve and their descendants with Gen. 3:16, but, rather simply told them that male rule and female longing/desire would be the consequences of their actions. There are a number of Bible scholars now who believe that Christ came to fulfill the law and everything else by which we fall short. We no longer have to be slaves to the consequences of sin in the Garden of Eden. Christ has broken that power and if we allow him to help us, men no longer need to rule over their wives and women no longer need to have that insatiable desire for their husbands. Now, don’t worry, you can still call your husband a hottie. But thinking that he can fulfill all your needs is not truth. We can still graciously submit to each other. Wives can still submit to their husbands. (And husbands, as part of the same Greek sentence in the Bible, can submit to their wives, who are part of the “each other” of the Body of Christ.) It is just no longer a matter of rule and be ruled.
I may have forgotten something, but I believe that there is no passage anywhere in the Bible that tells husbands to rule over their wives. Instead, husbands are told to lovingly sacrifice themselves for their wives as Christ gave himself for the church. If that’s the kind of “rule” that people are talking about for marriages, then I’ll buy it!
Posted by Wayne Leman on January 9, 2007 at 8:33 pm
Molly, I need to clarify my preceding comments which could easily be misunderstood. I am *not* suggesting that males acting under the effect of the natural testosterone which God has given them are necessarily doing anything wrong. And I am *not* suggesting that women naturally “relating” are doing anything wrong. But sometimes (often) in life we take what is potentially good and turn it into something bad. Male drive to lead can be a good thing if tempered by the servant heart of Christ, servant-leadership, washing the feet of his disciples. Female gifts at relating is a good thing. But it can turn into being a door mat, if not tempered by biblical teaching about our oneness in Christ.
I think that many things in life can be used for good or bad, depending on what we do with them. Work can be good, but I often overdid it and it became workaholism, where the needs of my wife and children suffered. God had to deal with me about that and bring about necessary changes.
Posted by Wayne Leman on January 9, 2007 at 8:34 pm
And there is nothing wrong with woman leading and men relating. Both are good.
Posted by molleth on January 9, 2007 at 8:50 pm
Wayne,
I fully agree that both the dominating and the relating aspects are likely God-given and when under the reign of Christ, are intended to be BEAUTIFUL things.
.
I also agree that the warping of those traits (into dominating *her* and seeing weakness as something “less-than”, and for women, into *needing* to relate so badly that one is willing to sacrifice one’s own soul to do it, not to mention the manipulating kind of relating) is the likely product of the Fall.
.
And, of course, I also agree that we see both traits in men and women—-men do like to relate, and women do like to win, so I realize I’m speaking very generically and there’s ALWAYS a million exceptions to the rule.
.
Still, it is interesting to look at the known history of mankind from the Fall on and we see, in culture after culture, men dominating women, and women letting them do it for the sake of maintaining the relationship—both things (seeking to win and seeking to connect) being good things, but when outside of the reign of Christ, they are easily warped.
Posted by GrammaMack on January 9, 2007 at 9:20 pm
Molly, I understand what you are saying about the effects of the fall in Genesis 3:16 (and I’ve never heard it taught as anything else), but then what do you do with Genesis 2:18, BEFORE the fall: “Then the LORD God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him” and 1 Corinthians 11:7-9, after the Lord’s coming: “A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man” and of course Ephesians 5:22-24: “Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands.” Are you saying that the Bible has been misunderstood and translated incorrectly all these years? (I am trying to understand your viewpoint.) Thanks.
Posted by molleth on January 9, 2007 at 10:32 pm
Okay, I just wrote out a book, but deleted it and decided to make it the next blog post instead…
I’ll answer your question soon, GrammaMack. (You’re not the Grandma Mack that I personally know, by any chance)?
Posted by But Scripture Supports Male Rule! (er, maybe) « adventures in mercy on January 10, 2007 at 12:26 am
[...] the time… and the interest…to answer a reader’s question from a previous post about male-rule…an answer in more detail than perhaps any reader here [...]
Posted by GrammaMack on January 10, 2007 at 11:40 am
Molly, I don’t believe we’ve met. Thanks for taking the time for the detailed answer!
Posted by Corrie on January 10, 2007 at 12:58 pm
Molly, great post! I am glad that you are asking these questions and attempting to find answers. I know I have had a lot of the same questions bumping around in my head for years. And you are right about the word “feminist” being the Christian “f” word. I wish I had a nickle for every time I was called a “feminist” just for questioning what a comp or patriarchalist was saying.
Keer, you are NAUGHTY but funny! LOL And, I would love to second what Keer said, Molly.
How about it? In your free time? LOL Does this make me naughty, too?
Psalmist, I would love to get my hands on that book you referenced. From what I can gather concerning the gist of the book, it kind of creeps me out. I really get tired of constantly boiling EVERYTHING down to gender. And you are so right about authority and leadership. Christ, Himself, turned the leadership paradigm on its head when he told leaders not to be like the heathen but to be like Him, someone who gets on His knees to serve and not someone who expects to be served. How can we Christians get this so turned around? Something that VF and complementarians and patriarchalists really have gotten messed up in their teachings.
If anyone wants to see what complementarians truly believe about women and their place, go to CCC-forum at yahoo groups. You don’t have to join to read the discussions. It truly is an eye-opening experience. Just recently they were discussing the issue of wifely discipline. No, no one says that a husband should spank a wife (it isn’t one of THOSE lists) but they do believe that a husband has the right and responsibility to discipline his wife and enforce her submission when he feels she is not submitting.
Light, I am still a squishy comp and I agree that it gets confusing. I am still searching and seeking and praying to understand all of these issues. I see a push for many comps to separate themselves even from CBMW (the Baylys and the mods from CCC) and they, themselves, are saying that the term “complementarian” is a cop-out and an equivocation and there are many comps who are advocating for the usage of “patriarch” instead.
I think that many in the patriarchy movement will keep on manufacturing more bizarre rules in order to subjugate women and to elevate men above women. I think this is only the beginning and the more people who talk about this, the better. I have seen many things over the years and I truly believe it is going to get worse before it gets better.
Posted by Julie on January 10, 2007 at 4:06 pm
Joanna,
I answered your question in my blog. The answer was too long to put in a comment.
Women in Politics
Posted by Psalmist on January 10, 2007 at 9:13 pm
Corrie, the book (as I think you guessed) is Mouser’s latest, and it’s self-published by his institute for gender studies (or whatever it’s called), and available only there, I believe. I haven’t checked about it in quite some time. He was promoting it on the ccc list the middle of last year, which is how I found out about it. Really, his “God’s cosmic sex” notions are bizarre.
I’m not going to say any more here about the book, except that I have no intention of increasing the author’s income by buying a copy. His promotional blurb alone was enough to tell me he’s WAY out of the Christian worldview with it, no matter how much out-of-context Scripture he wraps it in.
Hey, thanks for the visit!
Posted by Mike Swalm on January 13, 2007 at 10:07 am
Molly,
I’m a first-time visitor, and I wanted to say thanks for chronicling your journey for us here. It’s easy to talk about both sides of the coin without putting faces to positions etc., so thanks for being willing to be vulnerable. I appreciate your comments and particularly the spirit in which they were given. I’ve recently read a fantastic article dealing with the hermeneutic difficulties of GrammaMack’s question re: 1 Corinthians 11. Uses a chiastic analysis with a great explication of the lynchpin verse…i’ll look in my files and see if i’ve got it around somewhere. Incidentally, i’ll be watching this series with interest, as i’ve just started a series over at my blog on the concept of God as Father and the difficulties and nuances therein.
All the best.
mike
Posted by Peter Kirk on January 13, 2007 at 11:07 am
Psalmist (and others), thanks for your comments; see also my own post which partly related to them.
I found the following confirmation of Mouser’s view in the description of his book (jointly with his wife) The Story of Sex in Scripture:
This sounds to me like pure paganism, the kinds of creation myths which were common in the ancient Near East in which a male sky god has intercourse with an earth mother goddess. These myths are thoroughly debunked in the Bible.
Posted by opinion_minion on April 7, 2007 at 11:35 am
I find it interesting that complementarians (and I’m making the same journey as you) say that male leadership is God-ordained. Isn’t it strange that the world, which has rebelled against every other rule (No other gods, no adultery, don’t steal, don’t lie) somehow obediently fell into line on THIS ONE RULE. Makes me suspicious about this ‘rule.’ Oh, wait, I mean, the world ruined male leadership by being mean. Oops, that’s not what God said. Looks like my worldview just went through the crapper!
Posted by What Is a Help Meet? (Take 2) « Shanan Trail on May 15, 2007 at 10:55 am
[...] It’s not Male Rule, but Rather HOW the Male Ought to Rule and But Scripture Supports Male Rule! (er, maybe) [...]