I think I’m going to have to change my sidebar description, because I no longer feel like it is a proper explanation. I’m not “stumbling out of fundamentalism.” I’m not deconstructing my evangelical roots. I’m out.
I don’t know exactly where “out” is, because I’m not emergent, I’m not Roman Catholic, I’m not Eastern Orthodox, I’m not Lutheran, I’m not Calvinist, etc. I’m just sitting out here in a big green pasture with a Shepherd who’s voice I’m happy to trust. I see great strengths in all the above mentioned camps. I like grazing next to them and consider them fellow Believers. I just don’t belong to any one of those circles.
Speaking of happy, I happily didn’t go attend a church meeting yesterday. I did go spend a lot of time with brothers and sisters, first playing softball and then visiting around a dinner table. But, if “church” is a building one goes to on Sunday mornings for a weekly event, I didn’t do that. The songs-n-sermon that some say is imperative for Christian growth, no, required, is something I honestly can’t do right now. (I expect only some of you will understand that, and four or five years ago, I certainly wouldn’t have).
I recently said to a friend that I no longer feel like I’m deconstructing—at least not in the way that I was. I feel “out.” Done. Not there anymore. Standing on something firm, not something falling apart. A little bit excited instead of in mourning. Beginning to put wood and nails together instead of spending all my time ripping out rotten boards.
While there is plenty left for me to work through and consider, I must honestly admit that I am no longer an evangelical fundamentalist Christian. For some, that means I will go to hell. For others, that means nothing because what the heck is an evangelical fundamentalist Christian, anyways? For still others, they are smiling and welcoming me to the field. Whatever we are, the grass is good here.
Posted by Jeff on June 9, 2008 at 12:31 pm
How incredibly refreshing. I get glimpses of post-deconstruction and it’s the place I want to be. I still run in the institutional circle to some degree so I’m still struggling to find a place.
It amazes me that we have to attach the extra labels to this thing called faith. It’s beautiful to know that Christ is enough outside the four walls.
Posted by Katherine Gunn on June 9, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Molly~
Welcome. I am only just beginning to look around and realize that the walls are not necessary.
The security of the four walls keeping the world at bay doesn’t exist out here. But the greater security of trusting the One who made the world is much greater – and freer – and stronger – and more fulfilling – and scarier (at times). But the Grace and the Peace are worth the price – and the greater reliance & intimacy with Him is worth more than the price.
Love, Katherine
Posted by E on June 9, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Hugs and kisses to you from one who in many ways is a fellow stumbler-fumbler-bumbler-jumbler-mumbler&grumbler, who hopes someday to be humbler.
Posted by dannimoss on June 9, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Me too! It’s sort of an awkward place to be, because, like you, I’m not an “anything” (denomination/-ist/-ism) and how do you define that? I am a true follower of Christ; He is my friend, my everything, my life. But the institution of church doesn’t look much at all like what is described in the NT.
I do attend a church (and haven’t joined though I’m on the worship team and have been attending there for 5 years) because it’s the most un-churchy church I can imagine finding. And the pastors know we have some theological areas where we will lovingly agree to disagree. I can’t agree with any denomination (partly because, by nature, they end up worshiping their denomational distinctives more than just worshiping God) so I’m an odd duck.
I wish you the very best on your journey. This blog is a great asset to the community of those who are attempting to find our way singly out of a destructive religious system without abandoning the God we know and love.
– Danni
dannimoss.wordpress.com
Posted by Bruce Gerencser on June 9, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Welcome to the Land of Stumblers….
Once you lose the need to have a “label” it can be quite liberating.
Jesus really is enough.
Bruce
Posted by Diane on June 9, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Hi Molly
Recently “found” you again after your blogging hiatus and I am so glad you are back. Your journey certainly is not ending with your realization that you are “out”. But it is freeing, isn’t it!! Weights have been lifted, rising in the morning is more joyous as we realize that we are fully accepted in the beloved and that we are not expected to be perfect.
Your side bar reminded me of a wonderful book by Lauren Winner entitled “Girl Meets God”? Have you read it?
Posted by traveller on June 9, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Welcome to the field nice you are here.
Posted by Justin on June 9, 2008 at 8:24 pm
I wish I could join in on congratulating you on where you’ve arrived; however, I will congratulate you on questioning what you believe or have believed at one time.
Do you still believe that Jesus died for your sins, that God raised him from the dead and are you pursuing a relationship with Jesus? I’m not asking to be snide or insult your intelligence; I legitimately want to know.
Church is not walls, church is the body of Christ. If you aren’t getting what you want out of church it’s your fault. And I say this with the full understanding that we do not know each other. But I won’t sit by and say what I don’t feel in an attempt to make you feel better either because that’s not what I expect from other people. But this is all to assume that you wanted something out of church in the first place. If that’s not the case please excuse my abruptness.
Mentioning that I haven’t been to church in seven years will hopefully add some credibility to what I’m about to say.
If you love God isolating yourself will lead you away from him (Eph 4). How far is a question only you can answer.
Posted by molleth on June 9, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Yo, Justin.
1. I hold to the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed, theologically speaking.
2. I’m not isolating myself. I didn’t say I was isolating myself. I just said I didn’t go to a Sunday service and that I wasn’t planning on changing that anytime soon.
3. I’m in full agreement with you that the church is the body of Christ, not a building and not a weekly event.
Some more quickly rambled thoughts:
I believe that you can *meet* with the church in a building at a weekly event, but church is not the building nor the weekly event.
Assembling together is normative behavior for Christians. I should repeat that, so I will. Assembling together is normative behaviour for Christians.
I probably should have put that in the post, but I was writing in my usual quick-ramble way so I didn’t. I think the NT backs that up “gathering together” as normative and then some. We are in a family. Following Jesus is an individual thing in one sense, but it is very much a Body thing, in another sense. Isolation is not a good sign.
I’m just not sure that the “assembling” has to take place in the typical evangelically-prescribed way. It can. And that sort of assembling can be VERY VERY good. I know a lot of people who find their weekly-meetings-at-a-building to be a source of life to them, a true joy. I think that’s GREAT!
So I’m not dissing attending a service at a building in order to meet with the church. I’m just not one of those people. Not right now, anyways. I’m dissing the concept that says *if* I love Jesus, I *have* to be one of those people, that’s all.
You haven’t been to a church’s meeting in 7 years and are now coming back. Good for you. It sounds like you are probably on the right track. Learning to submit ourselves to eachother is a *good* thing, an important thing. If we’re never around eachother, we can’t learn that.
As for me, my path has been quite different from yours. I grew up going to services regularly, as well as the kids weekly programs and then the youth groups as a teenager. When I “met God” again as a young college person, I started going to Bible College, which had a policy that meant we were “required to attend every service, every time.”
I then became a minister’s wife and not only attended services, but helped make them happen in various ways, from doing the nursery or Sunday School, helping with the music, helping and sometimes running various mid-week programs, and later, when I had a bunch of my own children, wound down to just helping with a few programs and mainly just tried hard to get there all by myself every week for the Sunday services with all the kids actually bathed and looking good.
Ie, my rebellion towards “attending the services” comes from much experience attending.
I want something out of being with the church, yes. I want to experience being “in family.” And attending a service where 99% of the people sit facing forward passively while 1% excercises their spiritual gifts does not do that for me, nor do I feel my presence there benefits anyone else. It basically bores me to tears. How’s that for honest? 
At some point, I may find a church gathering that both is a family and is conduscive to growing family life. I think that would be really cool! In the meantime, I’m currently enjoying where I’m at. Which is at home, being mellow, enjoying actual sabbath-style rest for once in my entire adult Christian life (ha!),, and then going to play softball in the afternoon with a bunch of “family” fellow Jesus followers, and my husband and kids, late into the Alaskan sunlit night.
To everyone else,
Thanks for the comments and the replies. It’s always fun to read others thoughts. Good stuff.
Posted by servetus on June 9, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Congratulations on getting to where you are…but be prepared for more seismic changes in future, probably when you least expect them…setting out on this path usually means that there is no real destination, just more path.
You might enjoy reading James Fowler’s _Stages of Faith_.
Posted by Katherine Gunn on June 9, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Justin~
Hmm… you scold and reference one of your own posts – I read it. I’m glad you are sure of your current direction. Truly.
In your comment above, you made the following statement:
“If you aren’t getting what you want out of church it’s your fault.”
This is a blanket statement that is not always true. It is, in fact, bordering on abusive. I would request that you read this post:
http://truth-makes-freedom.blogspot.com/2008/05/sometimes-life-just-hurts.html
(Sorry, I don’t know how to do the html link thing).
I would then welcome your honest comments (as long as they are reasonably civil).
Posted by Alisa on June 9, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Molly,
Can I just say “AMEN!”???
I’m there with you, and yes, it’s so incredibly beautiful.
Posted by madame on June 10, 2008 at 12:16 am
Molly,
I completely understand being “bored” with church. I just wrote a post on my blog trying to express my feeling towards church, and boredom was right there at the top.
Like you, I grew up in church. My dad was a mission-national-worker and had meetings in our home. We split from the mission and he ended up being the pastor of the church for about 18 years.
I grew up having to “go to the meeting” every Sunday, Wednesday and Saturday.
I think I’ve reached a point of burnout and wish I could chill,. like you.
There’s nothing wrong with songs-prayers-preaching. Nothing. Give me a guitar, and I’ll be singing for an hour! But don’t ask me to lead worship right now because I just can’t.
I think commitment to a group of fellow Christians is good. We need each other, as you said, and I think that Jesus wants us to have commitments because sometimes it takes more than a hunch or a feeling to want to help someone. Sometimes you can only reach out to someone because you are committed to them. I don’t think that commitment is to a Sunday service in a certain building, though.
Posted by madame on June 10, 2008 at 12:17 am
Ps: my husband can’t just join a church, he always has to be involved. That sort of explains why I can’t simply miss “church”.
Posted by Anette on June 10, 2008 at 2:56 am
Molly,
What a peacefull and at the same time scary place to be. It is so exciting to be just following your Shepperd and He has already led you to green pastures!!
Enjoy
Anette
Posted by E on June 10, 2008 at 4:55 am
1. I hold to the Apostles Creed and the Nicene Creed, theologically speaking.
Molly:
Your thorn-in-the-flesh friend here.
Do you really believe in the Nicene Creed theologically speaking?
How about: “I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic church” according to the meanings and definitions of those terms as held by those who wrote/compiled/formulated/ratified the Creed? Hint: They were all bishops, so their definition of “church” was an episcopal (i.e., bishop-headed-and-led) visible Eucharistic gathering. And by “apostolic” they meant in accordance with the traditions they had received from the apostles and their successors, as well as being able to show that the bishops/leaders could show physical succession from the apostles.
How about: “I believe in one baptism for the remission of sins”?
Do you believe the Holy Spirit proceeds only from the Father, or from the Father and the Son? I.e., do you accept the “Western” version of the Creed with the filioque (”and the Son”) or the Eastern/original version?
“… of His kingdom there will be no end.” Do you believe there will be no end to Christ’s kingdom, or do you believe that at some point He will hand it all over to His Father?
Of course, by “theologically speaking” maybe you mean that you only believe what the Creed teaches about God/theos and don’t necessarily believe it ecclesiologically speaking (”one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church/ecclêsia“) or hamartiologically speaking (”one baptism for the remission of sins/hamartia“).
As for the Apostle’s Creed: Do you believe that Christ descended into Hell? Or do you, in accordance with many scholars, hold that when Ephesians 4:9 says that “He descended into the lower parts of the earth,” it means “the lower parts (i.e., the earth)” (in contrast to His ascending far above all the heavens = the upper parts)? Your good friend Wayne Grudem in the appendix to his Tyndale commentary on 1 Peter says that 1 Peter 3:18-20 refers to the Spirit of Christ preaching through Noah in those days, IIRC.
Much to chew on (or spit out, whatever your wont).
Love,
E
Posted by E on June 10, 2008 at 5:00 am
Drat those automatic smilies when using parentheses! The two winking smilies should be simply a closing parenthesis like after hamartia – I don’t know why the lack of a period turned them into smilies?
Posted by Vickie on June 10, 2008 at 5:18 am
Molly,
I just wanted/needed you to know that your writing blesses me.
I love your “Molly’s Story” sidebar. So simple. So me.
Thanks for your transparency.
Vickie
Posted by Heidi Renee on June 10, 2008 at 5:28 am
My friend Will Samson uses the term “Post-Categorical” – I really like that one.
Posted by meggan on June 10, 2008 at 6:09 am
hello molly- we’re going dipnetting from july 17-22nd…
meggan
Posted by Justin on June 10, 2008 at 6:58 am
Thanks for the honesty, I love it. I completely understand where you are with church short of actually knowing you. I too share a similar background of growing up in the church and realizing it was bland so I quit going (read the gist here). That’s where the seven years of being de-churched come in to play for me.
My sin was in not serving the body of Christ at all after that. I ignorantly decided that if I had Jesus then that’s all I needed. Perhaps; however, I isolated myself in doing so.
I believe your number 2 is the definition of isolation from the body of Christ. But, as you are saying, not completely. I understand that there are Bible studies to go to and the like. But there is more to Sunday morning than giving and getting from others.
This is a bit of where I fell short in my understanding. I didn’t realize that Sunday morning was first and foremost about God, an outward expression of obedience (like communion or a baptism) to just come. Equally important Sunday should be about our communities, our cities, leading the next generations, discipling and deep learning with and from each other. Church should be challenging. If you can’t find that in your church sit down with your pastor and be real with them. Get honest and don’t care what they think about it. If they are unresponsive then I would find another church.
There’s a possibility God is calling you out of that church. Maybe you and your family, in your stumbling out of fundamentalism, have moved on from your season there and God has another place for you to serve? Or maybe God is challenging you, like Nehemiah, to rebuild your church? Now, the latter would scare the hell out of me, haha.
For the record, I never said you were isolating yourself; however, I did correctly state what isolation leads to. When I see another Christian struggling with church I become concerned because I know what that feels like. Sunday church is an American joke but I will be damned if I let it become that for me and the people I care about. Truly.
I’m interested in where your journey will go from here. I’m excited for you and nervous all at the same time. The church needs people like you that care enough about Sunday to stop going. What it needs to throw out are people that go and don’t know why.
Again, thanks for sharing your honesty with everyone.
Re: Katherine Gunn – I stand by my statement. I don’t believe I meant it entirely how you took it so for that I apologize. And I apologize for what you’ve been through. I do care. And when those pastors are judged by God I don’t want to be anywhere near the scene.
Posted by traveller on June 10, 2008 at 7:49 am
Servetus, I agree that there is only the journey, not a final destination.
Justin, do you believe that “church” can only be expressed in an institutional form? It seems to me that this is the underlying point of your comments. It certainly is the predominant expression of church today, but not the only one and appears to be in serious decline, perhaps to extinction.
It seems to me that “church” is relationship not buildings, organization, programs and positions. How do you view church?
Posted by Adam G. on June 10, 2008 at 8:40 am
If you are still a Christian, how could you be going to hell?
Also, which hell? The one in Jesus’ day (Gehenna) fulfilled its purpose a long time ago (AD 70)
Posted by molleth on June 10, 2008 at 9:55 am
E,
No, just kidding. You’re right. Hm. The Nicene I love for the poetic bigness of it, but you’re right—-I take the license of liberty by defining “holy catholic church” as the universal invisble church, which they did not mean, and I also do not believe that the act of baptism causes sins to be forgiven/remitted. Urgh. Maybe I’ll just stick with the Apostles Creed. Btw, I read somewhere that the clause “descended into hell” was inserted at some point, not in the original. The concept of descending into hell doesn’t bother me at all, if it’s talking about Sheol (the grave), which I guess I always thought it was. Long story short, I never thought about it before! Good grief. NOW what do I give for a quick basic theological summation???? Thanks a lot, brother. Next time we talk on Skype, I expect a full apology.
Good, uh, points. They make me wonder why I pick scholarly types for friends. Sheesh.
Justin,
I *was* in a place of wanting to help change things, reform the system, do it a different way, try to *find* the right way, etc. I’m currently in a place of wondering if I was asking all the wrong questions. It’s really hard to explain. And, like I said, I have no idea how long I”ll be in this place. I admit to not really caring to defend it or explain it much more than I have. I don’t really have it “built” yet so I don’t have the words for it. Thanks for adding your thoughts to the mix. Good discussion!
Btw, THANK YOU, A & L, if you are reading at all, for opening your home and being such “hospitalitally inclined” people.
You both are amazing.
Adam G, the hell part was a bit of a joke made about a serious judgement that is/will be made. Great question about hell, btw. I have some of my own.
Meggan,
Do you have my number?
Heidi Renee,
GREAT “catagory.” I may have to steal that.
Vickie,
Thanks.
Traveller,
I want to say that the church is more of a living thing and less of a structure/program/building/positions, etc, but I must admit that the early church went the structure route pretty dang, uh, immediately. Either they missed the boat and have continued to do so the entire course of church history, or we’re on to something. Saying I’m on to something that 2,000 years of fellow Christians have missed makes me REALLY nervous, particularly because I’m highly aquainted with my own fallibility. And yet, like you, I have some real problems with the institutional form of “doing church.” Ugh.
Anette, Thanks.
Madame,
We’re the “can’t just go have to get involved” types. I think it’s in large part because of our giftings or personalities, whatever, but we can’t help it.
I led the music for a women’s retreat recently and I *LOVED* it. It was so fun. I feel so at home in the front helping others. (Not sure if that’s a positive trait or a negative, or a good mix of the two-ha). And I have the opportunity to be on the music team of a church gathering that I really like, w/ GREAT musicians, and was a few times and had a blast…but yet have declined the offer. I just hate the small group in front, big group watching small group. It’s weird. I *love* participating in the small group up front. It feels right, for lack of more sophisticated terminology. (If I was a man, I’d have gone the preacher route, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT). I just…I can’t explain it. Maybe it’s just for this season, I don’t know.
Alisa,
Hey, nice grass you got there.
Servetus,
Good book recommendation. Sounds like I need it. I love it: “just path.” That hits perfectly on one of the assumptions I was making (that caused me to ask all the wrong questions)—that the path led to a destination (so I have to find it—who’s got it? where is it? what does it look like?), instead of the journey itself being the destination. Jesus is The Way (which is also the earliest known “name” of what Jesus-followers were). That means this is a way/path that I don’t want to get off. The Way leads to Life, and the Way is Life.
Diane,
Looks like I need to read that book, too.
Bruce,
The Land of Stumblers. I like it!
Dani,’
Looking forward to reading more of your stuff!
Katherine,
I always enjoy what you have to say.
Jeff,
I have to say, I’m shocked to be entering post-deconstruction. It felt like it would never end…
…Now, back to my Real Life.
Posted by Justin on June 10, 2008 at 11:26 am
Re: traveller
Church is the body of Christ (1 Cor 12). This is evidence that church is not a space for people to meet. But do not be confused because this church has many positions (Eph 4).
The question of whether or not the only way church can be expressed is in an institutional form is null and void because Christianity itself is the institution and not the space its followers meet in.
As far as institutionalized church meaning doctrine and rules go, did Jesus not lay down specific guidelines in the New Testament concerning his followers? Yes, God gave his church a doctrine, he gave his church Jesus.
My underlying point is painfully simple. Go to church. Don’t fail the body of Christ by selfishly cutting yourself off from it (1 Cor 12). And I’m not talking about close friends and family, I’m talking about your community and the people in it that need you.
Buildings give us a space to congregate and practice being the church of the Bible in the same way that the field in a park near you gives soccer players a space to practice being the team they aspire to be. And if the body of Christ in that space is unwilling to follow the doctrine that Christ lived then you must either fight them for it or move on to find another space where there are brothers and sisters that will.
Just to be complete, I hold the church going out into our communities and cities just as important as I hold them meeting together in spaces. If we forget this then we might as well stay home on whatever day of the week we were going to get together anyway.
Posted by traveller on June 10, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Molly,
I agree that the church pretty quickly began to move toward institutionalization, although it did not come to full flower until the fourth century.
It seems to me that Paul Veira has a point in his book, that you have already referenced in one of your posts, which is that we should look before Acts to see the church that Jesus was building. Look at Jesus himself and what he did as the model for church. No institution there. All about relationships with God and others.
In my early days of realizing all these things it was scary to me. No form, no structure, no programs, how can this be? So, I understand the frightening part. But with perspective I see it as my trying to control not only the situation but God. The Spirit blows wherever it wishes and I need to riding on that wind.
Posted by Katherine Gunn on June 10, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Justin~
I am glad you have zeal for your convictions. And I applaud that you are following them. You should. Is it not possible to allow others to do the same without using words like ‘fail’ and ’selfish’? Is it not possible that God could lead people to different places at different times without to being identical to what you believe you did?
Just as a point to consider…. after Saul of Tarsus was converted, he did not ‘plug in’ to a local church… well, actually he tried, but he sacred them and stirred up trouble with the authorities and they sent him away. And he then went and spent 3 years (I believe) in the Arabian desert where he studied and built a relationship with Jesus. Was he wrong to do that?
Posted by TheNormalMiddle on June 10, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Hey Molls…I think there are a great deal more of us who are “out” than the world would like to think.
I’m completely and utterly disinfranchised with church, American style.
Most Sundays we get up, fix pancakes, eat together as a family, and then spend the day TOGETHER. I work in my garden and pop in my worship playlist on the iPod. My husband and I snuggle and take an afternoon nap. I pray a lot.
It isn’t the ideal, picturesque Churchy Sunday, but it works for us right now in our life.
We have not turned from God, we’ve just rethought the ways we worship.
Anyhow, I know what it feels like to be out.
Posted by TheNormalMiddle on June 10, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Oh, I meant to ask, have you ever read the book “Love Jesus, Hate Church?”
It is a bit of an angry rant, but it was a good read for me and really helped me figure some personal things out.
Posted by Justin on June 10, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Re: Katherine Gunn
We see things differently.
Posted by Lori on June 10, 2008 at 7:23 pm
The Normal Middle:
It seems the Sunday you described is..well..a *normal* day. You spend the day together. You make the effort to be WITH those you love, worshipping God, praising Him by enjoying and loving the family He has given you. Sounds wonderful and something we should be doing daily, day in, day out.
I think this is where we fail (as American Christians). We work, work, work – and our families get pushed to the end of our day. Church (and God) are squished in on Sunday mornings…..yikes…of course you would get disinfranchised.
This is just a fraction of why I am home with my kiddos. Why we homeschool. Why we don’t have as much “stuff” yet we have more time together. If we live our lives, our daily lives, in worship and praise and love ~ then we end up with more time for the church. We can attend church, serve, worship, love others, share with others, glean from others, be a part of the family of Christ – we can give so much more of ourselves because we are recharging each day with our own families.
Just some rambling thoughts. The family is getting lost today, and it seems like we are trying everything (including grasping at time on Sundays) to get it back.
[I in no way am attacking the way you are spending your Sundays, sounds great! Today's society separates families all week - and it is hurting us more than we realize. I just feel passionate about this topic and pray we can re-prioritize our lives before we lose the family AND the church completely.]
~Lori
Posted by Katherine Gunn on June 10, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Justin~
So it seems. And that’s okay.
Posted by molleth on June 10, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Lori,
Bad news. Normal Middle is a homeschool mom.
I homeschool, too. Sometimes I think that homeschooling actually gives me *less* time with my kids than I’d have if I sent them off for part of the day—real quality time to just enjoy them, I mean. Homeschooling just adds a bunch to my already overwhelming workload. (This is said with regards to my family, which involved having a lot of babies really close together, as I used to think that spacing children wasn’t God’s best, etc, and my fertility came back a lot faster than the “if-you-nurse-you’ll-naturally-space-them” crowd claimed it would).
We RARELY spend time *all* together as a family. My husband is gone full-time so that we have enough money to eat and all that. I’m “at home,” but that’s hardly “restful.” Other than when I sit here and talk to grown-ups, haha, I’m usually trying to do a million things, like, say: fix meals, keep up with laundry, wash dishes, keep up with everybody’s schooling, keep up with the energizer bunny toddler, keep up with the housework that never ever ever ends, moniter the kid’s chores, take one kid to violin, take the other kid to piano, take the boys to the gym to MOVE because winter in Alaska is loooong and dark and we all have cabin fever, take the middle two to 4-H camp, go out and kiss the boo-boo on the knee of the kid who just tried to do a full flip off a gravel hill on his bike, give a troop of smelly boys a hot bath, put away groceries, blah blah blah… (I’m not trying to make it out like my family life is always nuts, but, uh, mainly, it’s always nuts. Usually a pretty funny nuts, though, for whatever that’s worth).
As a minister’s wife, if we weren’t at home, we were pretty much at the church building or doing an activity with people in our church. “Going to church” wasn’t restful. Not even. It was work. Literally (paid the bills, etc). *We* were helping make it “restful” for everybody else. (And I fear I probably failed a bit at that, in that I helped create new programs to run, etc)…
On the “recharging each day with our own families,” I must have a different kind of family.
With five kids at home, a year and a half apart in age range, uh, being at home is NOT restful or recharging for me. It’s WORK. Not my favorite kind, by any stretch, either (though these are my favorite people *grins*).
Don’t get me wrong. That doesn’t mean that God isn’t here with us. But it’s still a lot of work. I personally need to get away to recharge, not be at home more (on a personal level). The romantic side of the idea of being a stay-home homeschooling mom of many has long since evaporated.
That said, Lori, thank you for your gracious tone and for bringing your thoughts to the table. You are welcome to pipe in ANYtime. Just because I disagree doesn’t mean you aren’t welcome (which goes for everybody else, too).
I’m fully with you, Normal Middle. Taking a day to breath together, to have NO agenda, to just enjoy the day that God made without a big list of obligatory “to-do’s.” That idea puts a big smile on my face.
Posted by mtash on June 10, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Hi Molly, I linked to you on the God Journey forums. We’ve been discussing relational vs religious parenting. Hope you don’t mind.
http://thegodjourney.com/forums/index.php?topic=1503.15
Posted by madame on June 11, 2008 at 2:23 am
Molly,
You know? I’m part of the church choir (I’m taking a break) and I feel like you about it. I like making music. Music plays a huge part in my life and is probably the best way for me to communicate with God.
But I also struggle with the little group facing everyone else and leading.
Ironically, “the Lord’s Day”, “the Sabbath” is the most hectic day for us, and it comes at the end of a busy week.
Posted by TheNormalMiddle on June 11, 2008 at 3:01 am
Ah, if it were only THAT EASY to chalk up all the problems in the world and in the church to the mom working outside the home.
I’m a SAHM, homeschooling mom of 7 years. And actually we all spend a ton of time together thru the week, but like Molly said, it is rare that we are ALL together ALL the time. Sunday’s allow that, which I love.
Probably can’t explain it well, but it is DIFFERENT on Sundays. It is more restful and purposeful when we know it is the Sabbath, for us anyway.
The sun just seems to shine brighter and things move slower for us on Sundays.
Posted by Lori on June 11, 2008 at 6:06 am
Oh, sorry if I sounded as though “only if you all stayed at home and homeschooled like me….”. Nope, not what I meant.
We can homeschool, we can be SAHM’s, and still have our lives WAY too full (not saying yours is, just stating in general). I’m saying the family is getting lost among all the mess today ~ that can include over-extending our kids and ourselves, even in the homeschool family.
And yes, I’m a pastor’s wife too. Sundays can be difficult. They are “work”. Which is why we make every effort to have our home be a haven daily – not just on Sundays.
Of course, with four little ones, this is not an easy task. Yet we are still with each other daily. Everyone recharges and energizes differently though (as you said).
All I’m saying is how you described your Sunday…well, maybe if we were making an effort to have our daily lives be a *bit* more like that, less hectic and spread out, perhaps we wouldn’t feel so “robbed” (of family time, of recharging, etc.) on Sunday mornings at church.
Molly, I’m enjoying your blog ~ even as I disagree
~Lori
Posted by Brian on June 11, 2008 at 7:18 am
Speaking of happy, I happily didn’t go attend a church meeting yesterday.
We didn’t attend church this past Sunday either. Instead, we slept in and made chocolate-chip pancakes. Then we read out of the Jesus Storybook Bible with the kids. It was quite the lovely morning.
Posted by Atlantic on June 11, 2008 at 8:15 am
Lots of tempting things to comment on here, but I’d like to go back to the beginning, to a comment Molly made near the top:
“I want something out of being with the church, yes. I want to experience being ‘in family.’ And attending a service where 99% of the people sit facing forward passively while 1% exercises their spiritual gifts does not do that for me, nor do I feel my presence there benefits anyone else.”
Now, I know that Catholic Mass and Protestant services are rather different in their focus (although the ultimate intention of both is to bring us into more perfect union with God), so what I’m about to say doesn’t apply precisely to the Protestant version. But I’m familiar with the complaint of people who feel that they are forced into being “passive” during Mass, and I think that they are not quite in touch with what active participation in Mass actually means. To quote from one of my favourite blogging priests,
BTW, I’d also be interested in what “going to church on Sunday” means to people commenting here. From some of the remarks, it sounds like it is a whole day thing that precludes, for instance, having pancake breakfast as a family, spending the day together (do families not go to church together also?) gardening, snuggling and napping. How many hours on Sunday does going to church actually take for you?
Also, here is a something on the observance of Sunday by Maria von Trapp (the real Maria from The Sound of Music).
Posted by E on June 11, 2008 at 8:37 am
Well, St. Paul gives some descriptions of what it means to gather together “in church” – i.e., “go to church” – in 1 Corinthians 11-14:
11:18 “when you come together in church”
11:20 “when you come together in one place”
11:33 “when you come together to eat”
14:26 “whenever you come together”
14:28 “[let him be silent] in church”
14:33-35 “as in all the churches of the saints let the women in the churches be silent … for it is shameful for a woman to speak in church” (The punctuation and translation/interpretation/application of this passage are subject to debate.)
Posted by Atlantic on June 11, 2008 at 8:48 am
No, what I mean is what are you (and others commenting here today) actually doing when you “go to church on Sunday”?
Posted by TheNormalMiddle on June 11, 2008 at 9:15 am
Atlantic…
I see what you’re asking. I’m the one who said we make pancakes, garden and snuggle. For me, those ARE worshipful things.
Sitting in a building singing hymns (or praise songs) and listening to a pastor give a sermon on tithing, or why I shouldn’t drink alcohol, or whatever just does not work for me anymore.
But I got burned very badly at my church, so I have hurt feelings and I know that. I’d rather stay home with my family and maintain my connections with Christian family and friends thru the week as opposed to getting caught up in the drama of church anymore.
For the life of me, I can’t make “forsake not the assembly of the saints” mean that I must go to church each week. I can assemble with the saints anytime to worship God. It doesn’t have to be on a church roll, does it?
Posted by Ann @ Holy Experience on June 11, 2008 at 9:16 am
Thank you, Molly, for a transparent post, and for hosting this probing discussion…
So much hurt in all our hearts. We lived bruised, rubbing up against each other the wrong way, trying to find our way on The Way.
What does it mean to be the church? How does that look in the living of our lives? What did Christ intend and how do we faithfully, authentically, holistically live about our part in His living, moving, loving body?
Know I send love, always friend…
Ann
Posted by Lynn in AK on June 11, 2008 at 9:26 am
I’m watching, Molly…. aaalllllwaaaaays watching.
You guys are welcome out here anytime and I promise to have plenty of food for the troops next time.
Posted by Atlantic on June 11, 2008 at 12:13 pm
TNM – I’m seriously trying to understand the situations and mindsets that you and Molly and others here are reacting to, because I have no personal experience of it whatsoever.
Please don’t describe anything personally if you don’t want to, but what is sort of thing you mean by “getting burned” and especially, “getting caught up in the drama of church”?
Posted by molleth on June 11, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Atlantic,
Those are great questions and I know you come at this from a seriously different angle…(it’s actually one of the more attractive things to me about the RC and EO traditions).
I’ve been pondering how to answer your question for the last couple hours, but am just not sure how to do it. It’s so…potentially loaded…and huge in and of itself…and, experientially, every answer will be different depending on which Protestant Tradition one hails from.
I’m at a loss for how to even begin to explain it. So I went to Michael Spencer’s essay page and stole his words [from this article: http://www.internetmonk.com/articles/P/papist.html , found on the essay page here, with a lot more essays that will likely help explain a lot more http://www.internetmonk.com/essays :
I’m tired of Protestantism. I’m tired of every man with his Bible being a little Pope. I’m tired of churches being connected to nothing but the pastor’s ego or the denomination’s corporate plan for growth. I’m tired of doctrinal differentiation being a required course in every attempt at cooperation.
I’m tired of the circus. Tired of the religious television networks and nutcase excesses of the Pentecostals. I’m tired of the church growth bandwagon, the megachurches and the Christian publishing empires. I’m tired of so darned much attention being paid to music, especially such bad music. I’m tired of evangelism turning everything into manipulation and every person into a trophy or a salesman..
I’m tired of approaching most of the goodness of culture with a loaded gun. I’m tired of the next new thing. I’m tired of arguing over scripture, Bible translations and big words for inspiration. I’m tired of every division creating a camp, a seminary, a publishing house and a cult of personality.
I’m tired of treating other Christians like they were the enemy. I’m tired of hearing propositions as if propositions disconnected from life somehow present a better picture of Jesus. I’m tired of the church being belittled and personalities lifted up. I’m tired of gnosticism being passed off as Christianity, and the life management Jesus being bigger than the Savior on the cross.
I’m tired of criticizing Catholics for their sacraments while we hang onto things like the public invitation and the sinner’s prayer as if they were right there next to John 3:16. I’m tired of making fun of the spirituality of Catholics when we are worldly and think it’s the best way to win the world. I’m tired of having no one to point my children to as saints because we are so enamored with equality and the cult of the contemporary.
I’m not on a quest for authority. I’m not looking for a way to know I’m right. I’m not even lying awake wondering which denomination is the true church. I’m just fed up, and I’m increasingly emotional about it. I’d like to find a place for the amusement park that is evangelicalism to stop and let me off.
Posted by E on June 11, 2008 at 1:18 pm
I’m tired of so darned much attention being paid to music, especially such bad music.
That sums it up quite nicely, Molleth (the whole quote, not just the sentence I extracted).
The “c” question is the question that Evangelicalism has not been able to answer. I.e., what is the church and where is the church?
A Christianity that accepts and salutes and professes the creeds and canon that were an organic and theological and spiritual outgrowth (as well as a mirror) of the life and prayer and worship of the Orthodox Catholic church of the first few centuries A.D., but severs itself doctrinally and communally (as in “communion” = the Eucharist) and ecclesiastically (as in “believing in an invisible church of ‘believers’ versus a visible congregation sharing from the same cup under the authority of the bishop who is himself collegially joined to his fellow visible-church-leading bishops) from that church is like a boat without moorings.
But yet …
Posted by Crystal on June 11, 2008 at 1:24 pm
On my Facebook it asks for what religion I am and I just put “All the way in love with Jesus.’ =)
I love reading your posts you are so inspiring and so whimsical. There is so much energy and love in your writing I feel alive when I read here.
Love ya Mollers!
Posted by Crystal on June 11, 2008 at 1:32 pm
PS….
“But, if “church” is a building one goes to on Sunday mornings for a weekly event, I didn’t do that. The songs-n-sermon that some say is imperative for Christian growth, no, required, is something I honestly can’t do right now. (I expect only some of you will understand that, and four or five years ago, I certainly wouldn’t have). ”
I TOTALLY understand that!! I was sick this past weekend and had church in my car with my kiddos singing to Arron Niequests’ new CD and in the living room memorizing our a-z bible verses while the kids moaned and groaned.
Posted by traveller on June 11, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Justin,
My apologies for not replying to you sooner. Somehow I missed your response to my questions. I understand your position and realize many people would agree with you.
However, I do not believe the church (or Christianity as you phrase it) is an institution. I believe it is an organism, which is why Paul refers to it as a body. By definition it is relational, not institutional.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I wish you an adventurous journey with Jesus.
Posted by TheNormalMiddle on June 11, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Alantic, I run the risk of hijacking Molly’s blog with the answer to your question. I will try to make it succinct, but it isn’t succinct subject matter.
I grew up in the Quaker church and stayed there for 25 years. My husband and I started attending a very conservative (in theology but more contemporary in service styles) Southern Baptist Church. We have been members there for 7 years. So I’m no “church hopper” who doesn’t understand that people are flawed, and thus church is sometimes flawed. I don’t need to be told that there are good churches out there. I know this.
My experience: The church we are still members at—when we joined we had very young kids and I was involved in nursery, sunday school, and eventually as my kids got a little older I became leader of the Awana Cubbies program. We have a very large church with oodles of kids.
A little background. I am a school teacher and now homeschooler. I’ve babysat everyone’s kids in the community and I have a pretty good reputation as a teacher, mom, and “lover of kids.”
Anyhow, flash forward. About two years ago I was invited by my best friend to what we call an Adam & Eve party. (think lingerie and toys for married couples). I went. I had an absolute blast. The party was all women, all MARRIED women.
A friend of a friend type of situation occured. Someone at the party knew someone I went to church with. They told them they saw me at the Adam & Eve party. The person at church goes to our pastor and tells them that evidently I have a problem with P**N. (which is completely FALSE. Going to a lingerie party is not the same thing!!!!!)
The pastor calls in all the deacons and elders (all men, many of which I babysat for as a kid, and have known me all my life, and/or are our personal friends) and they begin to have a series of SECRET meetings behind closed doors to see if “I am fit to work with children.”
These meetings happened several times and NOT ONCE was I privvy to them. I had no idea it was going on. Thankfully one of the deacon’s wives felt I had the right to know the “charges against me” and called me and let me know my name was being drug thru the mud.
My husband and I confronted the pastor and we were told that it was nothing, that the whole thing got blown out of proportion and that by the end of the secret gestapo meetings, it was clear it was nothing but gossip and slander.
The person who started this was not asked to apologize, recant, or anything. In fact, she continued to find me at church and hug me and tell me what a wonderful sister in Christ I was to her.
So yeah, I have hurt feelings.
Bad. A lot more details but I do not have the mental energy to rehash it much more and I’m sure Molly would like her post back!
Posted by molleth on June 11, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Normal,
Musings/opinions/rants/stories that contribute to the discussion (in any manner of constructive way, including dissenting opinions) are always welcome.
There’s no such thing as high-jacking this blog. Just ask Atlantic. She regularly posts essays (sometimes 100% dissenting with my thoughts) and I’ve informed her that she’s never allowed to leave.
So blab on, sista’s and brotha’s. Some things can’t be said in 20 words or less.
(Crystal,
Love ya, girl).
Have a warm Alaskan cyber squeeze.
Posted by Anne on June 12, 2008 at 6:29 am
Atlantic,
Count your blessings.
There are lots of websites witness to the madness good christian folk have experienced at the hands of other supposed good christian folk.
Try: http://www.wickedshepherds.com
http://www.parentingwithpurpose.com
http://www.batteredsheep.com
Or google spiritual abuse.
People who repeatedly get the stuffing knocked out of them start to question the system.
It’s about being organic. Not necessarily being programed. This site may help better understand :
http://www.jakecoleson.com
Posted by Anne on June 12, 2008 at 6:33 am
Correction:
http://www.parentingwithpurpose.net
Posted by Suzy on June 12, 2008 at 9:31 am
Yes, the grass is good
I’m glad you’ve found your place and are starting to feel at home where you’re at.
We are all just children in the eyes of God. And Jesus leads us gently to the place we need to be to hear him best.
I am a catholic. It’s where I was lead. It’s my piece of grass lol:) But what matters really isn’t the place but the person with whom we commune. Our Lord. Sounds like he’s right there with you Molly.
God Bless
Posted by Atlantic on June 12, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Hi Molly – I’m still trying to wrap my mind around this. The Michael Spencer article is somewhat helpful (although I’m distracted when reading it by thinking about the pain he’s going through with his wife becoming RC – I was the Catholic in that sort of situation for about a year and half once, and I know how awful it can be), and so are Anne’s links. The ultimate purpose of a Christian services is to worship God and thereby bring us into more perfect union with Him, but the ways that Catholics and Protestants go about this is different, to say the least. And the dynamics are so different! For example, the RCC is very clear that You Must Attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligation, although the list of valid excuses is pretty long. But I can fulfil that at any Catholic (and in some cases Orthodox) Mass anywhere in the world. And when it comes to groups with particular charisms and ministries, I know that there exist parishes that have lots of active groups, but there’s no expectation that one has to do that to be a good Catholic. I’m blessed to know a lot of really active, devout Catholics in my area, and I can’t think of a single one whose activities are primarily parish-based (except for the priests, of course).
I have this general feeling, nevertheless, that Even Protestants Should Go to Church on Sunday. I’m definitely influenced by C.S. Lewis here – I’m thinking of the various bits in Screwtape – but on the other hand, Lewis was mostly thinking about the various sorts of Anglicans and presumably also standard-issue congregationalists and non-conformists, etc, of his day. The type of authoritarian abuses such as what you’ve been through, and the stuff in the links Anne posted, are a completely different order of insanity.
TNM, that sounds pretty dreadful. What I find most appalling is the series of secret meetings without anyone asking you for your account of events. Even during the Inquisitions the accused had the right to defend themselves, and the punishments for bearing false witness were severe!
Posted by Atlantic on June 12, 2008 at 3:26 pm
And I’m still not leaving, Molly!
I’ll be away for the next few days, though.
Posted by traveller on June 13, 2008 at 8:27 am
Atlantic,
I am not sure that my comments will help you with getting a picture of this but I would like to try. As a little background I no longer participate in an institutional expression of church. I have not had bad experiences or hurt feelings or otherwise negative feelings toward the institutional church or those in it. I am still friends with the pastor of my CLB (church left behind) and we visit often.
I think it is often difficult for people who have lived their whole lives only seeing or being in an institutional expression of church to conceive of anything else. I had this difficulty.
First, to me, institutional means the combination of things seen at all local churches in anyone’s community. It is not denominational specific and these same characteristics can actually be imported into so-called house churches. So, if you attend/are a member of some church in your community you will know what I mean by institutional.
But as I have studied scripture, read some recent writings/books on this I have become convinced of several things listed below:
1. The church (ekklesia) was not intended to be institutional in its nature but an organism based on the relationship between God and humans and between those humans who choose to follow Jesus. This relationship is the living of life together in such a way as we all get a glimpse of what it will be some day when Jesus appears and all of creation is redeemed so that it becomes what Father intended from the beginning.
2. The current institutional expression was the result of a gradual change from way the ekklesia started with those who followed Jesus. A part of the reason it was not institutional in the beginning is that the ekklesia was not well received in Israel and the Roman Empire in general in its early period, indeed, even persecuted. But I believe more importantly it was not institutional because Jesus did not intend for it be so.
3. Though there was a gradual transition beginning at the end of the first century the real jump occurred in the fourth century when Christianity was legalized and Constantine, at least nominally, became a Christian. Many of the characteristics of the existing pagan religions were in one form or another imported and shaped the ekklesia’s structure and form.
4. The Reformation of five hundred years ago was partially a result of the Enlghtenment which became the foundation for Modernism. The current form of the institutional church we have today has been heavily influenced by the Enlightenment and Modernism.
5. As our culture has begun shifting out of Modernity into whatever is next, commonly called, Postmodernism some followers of Jesus have begun to ask questions about the institutional expression of church and some of its theological understandings. In some senses it is the Postmodern penchant for deconstruction. What I believe we need to grasp is that there is an enormous cultural transition happening which also is affecting the ekklesia.
6. Those who are asking these questions are also suggesting that as followers of Jesus we need to return to the relational aspect of what it means to be the ekklesia and move away from the institutional/Enlightenment/Modernism form of the ekklesia because it emphasizes the institution and rationalism instead of the relational aspects. This takes the form of some who wish to reform the institution, while others wish to return to the smaller, more simple expressions that look similar to the first century.
7. Because we live in a transitional period that may last for many more decades we need to recognize there will be multiple expressions of the ekklesia that exist together during this time. Although I believe over time the institutional expression is likely to cease to exist. (These transition periods occur every few hundred years but there is some difference for the one we are living in now because of the dramatic impact of technology. Molly’s blog is a perfect example of this difference. Also, the very fact that a book like “The Shack” could become the number 7 seller on amazon.com and number one on the New York Times trade paperback list just through “word of mouth” is another example.)
8. For people who have left the institution the ekklesia is the gathering of followers of Jesus anywhere at any time, sometimes without any pre-planned ritual or program, often without clergy, and often around a meal. It is the living of life, individually and collectively, as the ekklesia (called out ones) in such a way that those outside their community see what it means to follow Jesus in good and difficult times/experiences.
For those who have left the institution I believe our only request is, that those who have not, understand we have not left the church (ekklesia) we have left only one expression of it for another. Being the ekklesia is not confined to the current institutional expression of church.
Posted by molleth on June 13, 2008 at 10:53 pm
http://paulmayers.blogs.com/my_weblog/2008/05/how-to-be-a-good-fundamentalist.html
Good post on a similar vein but more mature.
Posted by Beatrice on June 14, 2008 at 7:29 am
Thanks so much, Molly. I have come to the realisation lately that church not only wearies me, I hate going and I can barely remember what it felt like to enjoy going to my old church, as if none of that was ever real. Church for me now is one of the most confusing and subtly painful experiences in my life. I can barely feel even a desire to find a new church someday. (Though I do plan to do so after I can get free of the one I have to go to now.) This has been a scary realisation. I had heard of other people feeling like this, but I never dreamed I would. I asked myself if it meant I was losing my faith.
The answer was no.
Really. When you strip the trappings of religion away, faith still remains.
Yeah, I hate my life sometimes, or feel nothing for it. I won’t pretend otherwise.
I still try to stay close to other believers. God has thrown many into my life who don’t go to my present church, who understand me and can remind me of Him. Someday hopefully I can enjoy both fellowship and being part of an organised body again. I think the heart of church is just simple fellowship and joint worship with other believers, which doesn’t need pews or pulpit. (It can happen anywhere from a cathedral to a subway.) But often it does work out in an organised church setting, so later on, maybe I can find one. But now and beyond now, my God is suffiencient for me.
Again, thanks so much. It’s really wierd how you’ve been through and wrestle with stuff and I find out just when I start to go through similar things. So good to know I’m not alone.
Posted by madame on June 14, 2008 at 8:50 am
Anne, this quote from the site “wickedshepherds” has me worried, and not because of the wicked shepherds, but the authors of the site!
Posted by Katherine Gunn on June 14, 2008 at 9:00 am
*Shaking head* It never seems to go away, does it?
Posted by molleth on June 14, 2008 at 9:18 am
Madame,
Ha! I saw that too. They figured out that absolute authority is dangerous when it comes to church elders, but not when it comes to women. Their interpretation of Eph. 5:23 was similar to mine—-I was the same way, due to the basic presuppositions about how delegated authority works. Like them, I figured out that the way I thought about authority in regard to *elders* was wrong, but not just plain wrong IN GENERAL. So I took my faulty views and brought them into my marriage. Out of the frying pan and into the fire. NO one can play God for another human being. OF COURSE there will be serious problems. It’s funny, though, how they groan over having to live under the “will of God spoken through elders” and talk about how awful that is, and yet they don’t think it’s going to be awful for a woman to have to live under the “will of God spoken through her husband.” There’s this idea that men were made for freedom, women were made to be ruled, so they don’t mind it… Gee, something about Gen. 3:16 comes to mind here.
Beatrice,
Sorry you have to go through this stuff too! For what it’s worth, I actually do long for a community to “be the church” with. So it’s not that I hate the idea of being together or anything. I just can’t do the whole *program* part of it right now. I dunno…
Posted by Greg Anderson on June 14, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Heya Mollerz,
I hear ya about the bad music in fundagelical land too! Funny you’d mention “muddy waters” in the marqee of this new post of yours, I’d rather listen to Muddy Waters anyday!
Posted by molleth on June 14, 2008 at 8:51 pm
HAAAAAaaaaa. I was wondering if I was the only person who made that association in my mind.
Now I’ve got blues in my head…
Posted by madame on June 15, 2008 at 8:19 am
Posted by molleth on June 16, 2008 at 10:25 pm
http://aholyexperience.com/2008/06/love-body.html
A beautiful post—-along these same lines, though in a different place.
Posted by Melanchonika on June 17, 2008 at 6:31 am
Hi Molly
It’s Monica.
I could have written that post. Sounds like I am a green pasture loiterer as well….though my green pasture is probably a different shade of green. While I dont know this for a fact, I know the path God has taken me down well enough to know-no two green pastures are identical. Isnt God awesome? He gives us all our own little pasture. teehee!
I cant ‘do’ church either. Ive turned into a ‘buffet’ kinda gal, going for different gobs of ‘feedings’ and serving sizes everytime i get back in line. i even try different buffets. this week, i hit the pool with some friends who claim Christ, took my kids to the Moravian Church up the street’s VBS cause even though i wanted them to stay home and help clean, they still think VBS is completely cool….then i went to a bible study where we are all free to share our understandings in the moment…and there is no leader. wait-we dont even call it a bible study. really we gather to picnic and fellowship. lastly, i went to my twelve step group where we have people of all backgrounds…..probably the most ‘humble’ pie i took from the buffet this week would have come from THERE.
church started making me angry. then it bored me. then finally i wodnered why iw asted so much blessed time getting ready to go somewhere where i wasnt walking away with anything, and neither was anyone walking away with gifts from me…….cause i am either misunderstood, or in a different process in my life. instead, sunday mornings, ive learned to relax. ive learned it is much more useful to help someone clean up her yard than hit church. i also feel like my blessings are more direct, and dont have to be ‘filtered through another ‘program’ or ‘event’ at church. i just get up and do it. whats awesome is when you stop feleing guilty for it. freedom. it tastes good. i know this isnt the end all for me. this path will take turns. i will go this way, then that. i will sit in confusion. i will become hyper. i will hold still. but i will grow in both understanding, and peace. today, my heart years for that more than anything.
Posted by Jon on June 24, 2008 at 10:48 am
Molly,
I just stumbled across your blog in another search and really felt for you. I grew up as an anti-clergy, anti-institutional Plymouth Brethren (Darbyite). They were constantly splitting and dividing over personal foibles. Drove me nuts. Starting contemplating chucking it all over the side. Got intrigued by a small book written by Fredrica Mathews-Green (the NPR commentator) called “The Illumined Heart.” It does a good job of drilling back to the ancient church in an extremely digestable fashion, despite the fact that she’s a phenomenally accomplished biblical scholar. If you have a chance, grab it and take a read while you’re sitting out in the grass. The Bible commands that we do not forsake the assembling of ourselves together; took me awhile to figure out what we were supposed to be assembling ourselves together for . . . In any event, don’t give up.
Posted by Anne on July 1, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Madame,
Sorry, I only just found your comment tonight about http://www.wickedshepherds.com and their view of women. Well, that is about par for Reformed Baptists, which is the group we came out of and which the man who has this site came out of. It is something that they seem to have especially bred in their churches. We were pounded with it. My husband STILL acts this way,seeing nothing wrong and he is a M.Div. so I have a hard time discussing things with him. I am still trying to untangle myself from it. Your and other women commenting here and sharing has helped greatly. I use small openings to bring the light to my husband.