A person I know, like, let’s say by the name of Polly, was recently told by someone in the blogosphere that she was leading herself and others astray from the true Christian faith. Why? Because she had serious doubts about some of the aspects of Christian fundamentalism.
I’ve mulled over this here and there, while watering flowers at the greenhouse business, while doing the dishes, even a little while getting my skinny butt ran into the gym floor by a bunch of vicious back-from-college volleyball studs. Segue: It’s been somewhere between 10-15 years since I played volleyball, a sport I once won a college scholarship for (though I decided to drive across the country instead), and I admit to being a little nervous about attending the open gym at the high school last night. I held my own half-decently—well, at least didn’t totally embarrass myself—but OHMYGOSH my legs are killing me today and my arms are now covered in broken blood vessels and blue/green bruises from receiving the hits that those brutes reigned down. The up-side is that some of them thought I was a high-schooler. You know, there are some things that make any amount of pain worthwhile…
But BACK to the subject at hand (down, vanity, down!). In mulling, I decided that I want to make something very clear, something I certainly didn’t know growing up in a fundamentalist church. Growing up, I pictured true Christians (that would be us) worshipping in barns and other hide-outs, while the evil fake Christians (that would be the Catholics) ran the so-called church for about 1500 years or so until Luther came out of the closet and set us all free. I pictured that because that’s essentially what I was taught.
But while it is true that there were many different views on what Christianity should look like through the centuries, meaning we weren’t entirely wrong when we thought there were believers who weren’t entirely satisfied with the way things were ran from Rome, it doesn’t appear that any of the early disatisfied closely resembled the Christian fundamentalist church as we know it today. Which is the point. Christian fundamentalism is a new kid on the block.
Being new doesn’t make it automatically wrong any more than it makes it automatically right. But at a pint or so bigger than a century, it’s kind-of on the short side compared to the two-thousand year old tree of Church history. Which would mean that questioning Christian fundamentalism in no way means one is questioning the fundamentals of the Christian faith. If anything, Christian fundamentalism’s departure from what most of Church history has considered “fundamentals” should give one pause for concern—or at least a respectful nod given to those who would request the freedom to doubt.
Speaking of doubt, doubt is not always a bad thing. Does the Bible tell us to trust ourselves or our fellow humans as infallible beings? Okay, I agree—doubting God may not be such a great idea (though, don’t worry— He’s big enough to handle it, and He won’t stop loving you even as you wrestle through your questions). Some people get it all screwed up, though. They think that if you doubt their little theological camp (and this applies across the board, and is something we’re all susceptible to, no matter what camp we find ourselves in), you are doubting God, and that’s where they get it messed up. They are so confident in the infallibility of their camp that to doubt it is to doubt God.
If you’re setting up something that isn’t God and calling it God, there’s a term for it. It’s called idolatry. A really tricky thing for those of us who live in human flesh and bones. We love idols. Sometimes I wonder if my default position is kneeling in front of one. I truly saw all my views as God’s—that’s why I held them so strongly. And when someone questioned them? They weren’t questioning my interpretation of [insert pet issue here], for goodness sake, they were questioning THE AUTHORITY OF GOD HIMSELF!
There’s a reason the “my interpretation is God’s interpretation” folks often have their undies in a wad. There’s a lot of reasons to get them in a wad, that’s why! They’re in a battle, and every time a poor innocent person disagrees with their interpretation of things, God just got disagreed with. It can get a little exhausting, always having to protect God from all those doubters… Thankfully, there is some really good news:
1. Doubting a theological camp is not the same thing as doubting God.
2. Doubting someone’s interpretation of Scripture is not the same thing as doubting God.
3. Doubting the wisdom of an appointed spiritual leader(s) is not the same thing as doubting God.
Before someone let’s me have it in the comments box, let me add that, no, it’s not a good idea to be rebellious, as in a general personality trait. It’s not a good idea to be a big hairy know-it-all about everything. It’s not a good idea to have to buck the system every single time you find a system, and to never be able to actually help someone else out, to never be able to receive correction from any source.
So if you find yourself at odds with everybody most of the time, you probably have a bit more rebellion floating around in your bones than you need. Part of being a Christian means that we submit to each other, that we are humble, that we don’t think we’re the big know-it-alls in the group, we don’t always have to lead the charge, we don’t always have to be “right.”
But there’s a flip side to that. When your group tells you that it’s the one that Is Right, and when questioning your group or their paradigm/interpretation is tantamount to sin, something is seriously wrong. The Christian faith is big and wide and deep and, well, a little crazy, in a holy sort of way. So, keeping in mind the big thick mix of it all, one little sub-group’s version of the Christian faith is exactly that: one little sub-group’s version. You might end up finding it to be just what you think is right, or you might find it to be whacked. Either way, it’s okay to ask probing questions. Please, do.
Their version of the story is okay to doubt. Their interpretation of the Scriptures is okay to question. You’ll find no Scripture passage promising you that their version is infallible. There is One who is infallible (without error) and it’s Yahweh Himself. No little human group is going to get to wear that kind of label unless they pin it on themselves, which is another way of saying that self-proclaimed infallibility is, um, worth doubting.
Paul, the great apostle, didn’t get offended and tell the Beareans that they were going to be cursed of God for daring to question his teaching. No, actually, he commended them, publically lauded them as noble, for not believing him because he was persuasive sounding but going to the Scriptures and searching them carefully, discussing them amongst themselves. I guess I’d just like to see at least that level of humility be something not just allowed, but expected in leaders, groups, and movements, and I sure respect it when I see it. Not on the volleyball court, though. Just say I look a lot younger than I am and all will be forgiven.

















Posted by abmo on June 19, 2008 at 1:20 am
Hi Molly,
I think the problem with some people is that there is some doubt present in their lives, but to quiet the doubt, they ensure that their is NO doubt visible anywhere. Now, let ’s say you come along and start to ask questions. You point to something that might…um…well…be…wrong. WHAT!!! If I am wrong about one thing, then there might be other things as well!!! That leaves a lot of doubt and we all know that we cannot have any doubt.
It’s strange to me that people believe they can be perfect in all they do and say. They have to be, otherwise there is room for doubt.
I love Jesus and one of the reasons I love Him is that He had a moment where He doubted His Father. He said, “Why have You forsaken me?” and yet…..with that doubt He said: “Father, into your hands I commit My spirit!”
Perhaps we can learn from Him.
Posted by placeofgrace on June 19, 2008 at 1:44 am
Molly,
And then looking so young after having all those beautifull children … you must tell us your secret
Sometimes your thoughts are so close to home, it could have been mine, only, you have more word and are more eloquent in using it!
In any case, I just love how Yahwe, our Almighty God, cannot be pinned down by one or even all the viewpoints together. How He is so much more than we could think, dream and imagine. If we could just see how small we are in relation to the Person who created all of the universe, maybe then we would stop trying to fit Him into our small boxes.
And then the most incredible part: In His extravagant greatness, He still loves and values each of us, enough not to be upset or thrown out just because we have human doubts!!
Hope the thighs are already better, if not, and if you know Arnica-oil, try using that. It helps.
Posted by rob horton on June 19, 2008 at 4:44 am
beautiful post! i really enjoyed it.
Posted by TheNormalMiddle on June 19, 2008 at 5:59 am
Hey Molls, I played Volleyball too wayyyy back in high school. Didn’t get a scholarship, but I really enjoyed playing when I was young and spry. Wouldn’t try it now for all the tea in china!
But to the serious stuff: I’ve made a little rule for myself. Any group that tells me it is wrong to ask questions and doubt things, is a group I run AWAY from very quickly. Mind control, anyone?
Posted by Doug Jones on June 19, 2008 at 6:26 am
if we don’t doubt – are we really living by faith?
we are not called to live by FACT – fact is observable, testable, provable… we are called to live by faith – that which we can’t see.
faith has a “shadow side” and in that shadow lies doubt… if we are to continue in this walk of faith following Jesus it is going to demand we learn to live with questions, quandaries, and yes doubts.
helpful post!
Posted by Annie on June 19, 2008 at 6:57 am
Oh, this issue is so frustrating for me. I get really tired of hearing people say or reading things in the blogosphere about how black and white issues are and anyone who doesn’t agree on a particular issue is wrong and not trusting God (um this makes me think of another blog you mentioned recently!), especially when it is about issue that isn’t even discussed in the Bible. Wow. That’s a pretty big role to assume when you say you know the black and white 100% truth this is the only correct thing to believe about something that isn’t taught in the Bible.
It also reminds me of something I heard a preacher say once when talking about doubts and questions. He said, “Nothing is going to crawl out from under a rock and eat God, and if something does then we’ll worship that instead.”
Of course, that bit about worship something else in the end will throw a lot of fundamentalists in a tizzy I suppose
But the point is that God is big enough and powerful enough to stand up to every doubt and objection and question. He is big enough to answer the questions (even if we won’t get all the answers here on earth). We have nothing to fear by asking questions. Thankfully I was raised in a church that taught me to test everything and hold it up against the Bible–I did and ultimately it led me out of that church (which was pretty fundamental and one of those denoms that felt it was the only right denom). So at least I know that some fundamental Christians do welcome the questions and doubts, even if in the end we’ve found different answers
Posted by Melanchonika on June 19, 2008 at 9:01 am
im envious that i didnt write this post. the content therein, swims around in my mind and heart but cant seem to spit itself out in chat ink.
i agree. idolatry. i even go so far as to call it anti-christ, and witchcraft. of course people get upset at that, thinking/assuming im saying they are going to hell. wrong. im simply saying that behavior stemming from an idolatrous mindset…isnt very profitable, and will downright confuse you. i had my physche so wrapped up in a fundamentalist idolatrous mindset, i was a basket case. realizing my reality, wasnt *reality*…….well, lets just say i felt like my own personal state hospital
i also find this mindset likened to addiction. we can easily use a diversion to divert us from the real issue. religion and fundamentalism-whatever kind of fundamentalism it is-are diversions. takes us outside of OURSELVES. the more a false-self is weaved, the more it keeps looking outside, cause who would want to look inside? its getting ugly in there.
i know for myself, fear was a big motivator underneath the idolatry. fear wanted a ‘right’ place to rest. it wanted impulsive thinking, and decision making. it wanted safety. it wanted to know that as long as im on the continual road to scrutinizing every area of life and finding THE correct answer, that i was safe with God and he wasnt angered at me. little did i know that that practice is really called micro-managing. and its highly addictive.
if people questioned my fundamentals, well then they posed a threat-because there wasnt one right way to do anything, if they were correct. which meant i had to be welcome to be more open minded, realize i didnt know how to live for the day, and that id be stumbling around asking for more grace to help me. CARELESS SINNER ME!
sadly, my identity became lost before i allowed myself to be a careless-living-each-day-at-a-time-SINNER. i was so wrapped up in my black and white thinking, i would conform to anything that offered more walls. i forgot who i was. or did i ever even know?
fundamentalism stole my identity. i am now on a journey to claim it back.
Posted by joyfullygrowingingrace on June 19, 2008 at 9:07 am
Great post, Molly. The past several months for me have been a time of my eyes being opened to all these different “isms” that I guess I knew were out there, (well, not all of them!) but didn’t know the depth of their self-imposed isolationism within the Body of Christ. That’s not how the Body of Christ was intended by its Designer to function, as I read it in 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14.
Also, the more I learn, the more I understand how little I know. And the more I’m driven to the Word of God. It’s relatively simple to understand vs. the sprays of dogma spit out by the various “isms”.
On a political note, I’ve always been a conservative (still consider myself one) and did not understand the fear and vehement rejection of what *I* consider to be conservatism by the Left. If their fear is based in what they know of the Fundamentalist/Reconstructionist “wiing” of conservatism, then I get it. Those folks scare me a little, too! But then I have the assurance of having a Dad that’s going to set us all straight in the end!
Yet I’m called by God to love the rights, the wrongs, the lefts, the in-betweens and the way-out theres (from my “perfect” point of view, don’t ya know HA). And I know that God is perfectly able to defend Himself, wherever interaction with any of the above may lead.
Great points:
About how God can handle our doubts . . . pretty sure David did some of that in the Psalms, and God didn’t strike him dead or reject him. God proved His faithfulness.
About how questioning (doubting) a camp, interpretation, or someone’s wisdom is not the same as doubting God. God is the one who told us to “Test EVERYTHING” 1 Thes. 5:21,22. Questioning – testing if you will – is not going against God. It’s being obedient to Him.
About how if you disagree with everybody all the time, you’ve crossed the line from “testing” to rebelling.
And about “Polly”? I think she’s doing just fine. As long as she holds on to Christ as her Rock and her Anchor, and builds from there, she’ll do just fine =o).
You go, girl! (right back at ya)
Posted by Leah on June 19, 2008 at 9:53 am
*nodding and smiling*
Posted by terry on June 19, 2008 at 12:16 pm
This is a shameless plug Molly, but this post feels like deja vu. While I admit that your views sometimes make me raise my eyebrows in doubt, this post is eerily close to the one I posted yesterday. Check it out when you have time:
http://terrysoapbox.blogspot.com/2008/06/by-this-shall-all-men-know.html
Posted by molleth on June 19, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Oh. Mah. Gawrsh.
I can hardly move.
I just played volleyball again…I think I pulled stomach muscles that I haven’t used since before I gave birth for the first time…I need a chiropracter, a rolfer, and a massage artist, all at the same time. Oh!
But oh man, how much FUN it is to be in a gym and sweat and dive and stuff. It’s a weird thing, motherhood. I mean, I forgot how much I love playing ball. You just can’t do it when you’re always pregnant and nursing. It’s so fun to be on the other side of that and remember, oh, yeah, I am a person in ways other than wife and mother. It’s really refreshing. There are these parts of me that have been sublimated…not necessarily in a bad way—more like in a *necessary* way, but it’s SO fun to have them come out again.
Speaking of motherhood, I’m going to bring my girls next time…get them all studly too, those athletic beauties. Not that I’m competitive or anything…but if they can start playing now, they’ll kick the pants off of the other kids later…not that I’m competitive or anything… Oh, did I already say that?
OH my gosh, my whole body is just ACHING. PAIN. But I have a plan. Muhahaha… Once I get in buff stud shape, then I’ll show those college weanies a thing or two…
Oooh, highlight of the night; someone asked me what grade I was in today. *sigh* I love that little girl.
(Okay, true confessions: it probably has to do LESS with my face and MORE with the fact that I have the body of a 12 year old, meaning, let’s say, seriously lacking in the curve department, but, hey, you take what you get and make lemonade with it, right?)…
OH, yeah, we were talking about something…what was the topic again?
KIDDING. I am reading all the comments and thoroughly enjoying the thoughts, the ideas, the stories you all bring to the table. Good stuff.
Posted by madame on June 20, 2008 at 6:15 am
Molly,
May I say this and run? I’m jealous of you and your 12 year old body. There. I said it. I’m also jealous of your not-twelve-year-old-at-all brain. So. I said that too.
It takes me forever to organize my thoughts, spell check them (wordpress does that…), style check and then submit them (not in the wifely style), hoping for the best that they sound like English to my readers.
It also takes me forever to get rid of my pregnancy bulges and I’ve got permanent surplus in the curves department . You want some?
Posted by Brian on June 20, 2008 at 6:40 am
Hey Molly,
Man, this post is bringing back memories. I grew up in a conservative Church of Christ and the mindset was very similar. We were convinced that we didn’t actually have an interpretation. Whatever our understanding, it was exactly what the BIble said. Phrases like, “you’re not arguing with me, you’re arguing with God” still give me chills. And quite frankly, we liked to argue a lot. For us, everything was a salvation issue. So to be sure of our salvation, we had to be right. Quite a load to bear, actually.
BTW, I love volleyball and actually coached high-school(on a volunteer basis) for a couple of years. I hope to get my girls(8 & 6) interested in playing so I can live vicariously through them.
Posted by E on June 20, 2008 at 7:33 am
I’m just starting volume 5 in Jaroslav Pelikan’s The Christian Tradition: 5 Christian Doctrine and Modern Culture (since 1700). The eighteenth century was a time of out-of-church societal rejection of Christianity and inside-the-church rejection of the ecclesiastical system. (Sound familiar?)
“When defining the church, [John] Jewel [the Anglican Bishop of Salisbury, who wrote his Apologia for the Church of England in 1562] had protested in response to Roman Catholic charges: ‘Surely we have ever judged the primitive church of Christ’s time, of the apostles, and of the holy fathers, to be the catholic church.’ This identification of ‘the true primitive church’ as both the ideal and the norm was a presupposition shared by all parties at the beginning of the eighteenth century. Tertullian’s statement, proverbial by now, that ‘the blood of Christians is the seed,’ which meant that persecution had produced firmness of faith in the ancient church, supported the contention of the new Reformation that prosperity and political acceptance had not been good for the church, which had been ‘in a better and more glorious condition before God’ when it was persecuted. It was necessary only to read the history of the church, as written for example by Gottfried Arnold, to draw the contrast with the present. A review of how the church had been corrupted in each successive age led inevitably to the warning that such a fall of the church would happen again in this last age of its history. Citing early testimony, such as that of Irenaeus, for Roman primacy, expositors of Roman Catholicism equated ‘the true, uncorrupted, uncontaminated, and genuine church of Christ’ with ‘that church which is in conformity with the primitive church of the first four centuries,’ namely, their own. Yet in may respects such a conformity with the primitive church, which had already been an issue in the ecclesiological debates before the Reformation, was beginning to belong more to the question than to the answer. As historical research probed the sources of knowledge about it, it appeared that the pattern of primitive Christianity had been forsaken by subsequent ages, perhaps even that it could no longer be identified, much less recovered.” (p. 15)
I.e., it appears that fundamentalists and/or those advocating a back-to-the-Bible-and-the-first-church form of Christianity (including some of us) have been fighting the same battle for more than 300 years, yet in my experience they and we are largely ignorant of the fact that the Reformation was in many ways the cause of the problem(s) they/we are trying to fix. They/we hold up Luther and Calvin and their actions and doctrines as helping restore the true Gospel (and are probably not aware of the fundamental conflicts and disagreements between the two systems of belief), and claim them and the other Reformation leaders as their/our own, but the resultant severing of the imagined “true church” from the historical church has in some ways created an insoluble problem. And the fact that what the problem and the solution are perceived to be is no different than was the case more than three centuries ago suggests to me that fundamentalism/Protestantism/whateverism is doomed to endlessly repeat itself as each new generation of dissatisfied and spiritually restless Christians makes the same charges against the church and society and proffers the same solution(s) while remaining ignorant of the fact that the same thing has been said and done again and again and again by each “we are Christ’s followers” group or groups of people for more than 300 years.
*sigh*
[/rant]
Posted by molleth on June 20, 2008 at 11:23 am
[rant]
[/rant]
I’ll have to remember that.
Brian, Cool. I was just asked to coach the C team, which would be so cool. I’m just not sure if I can fit it into my schedule…I’d just love it, though. And agreed on the “interpretation” thing. Groups I’ve been in didn’t have an interpretation either—WE were just believing the Bible, the straight Bible, and nothing but the Bible, yadda yadda yadda…
Madame,
Well, you can be jealous of mine and I’ll be jealous of yours. I buy my bras in the 6th grader aisle, if that makes you feel any better…
Posted by Leah on June 20, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Sheesh, Moll~ If I ever start discussing my bra purchases on my blog, come over to my house and smack me.

~L
Posted by molleth on June 20, 2008 at 5:18 pm
What, you think that was maybe too much information?
Posted by madame on June 20, 2008 at 5:22 pm
lol Molly,
Those aren’t exactly my problematic curves! they are currently deflatable and heading south, still jealous?
6th grader aisle is bound to be cheaper!
Posted by Joy on June 24, 2008 at 8:18 am
Molly, you just have a way of saying things…this post has been floating around in my head for months and you went and said it so much better and so much more eloquently than I can dream of being.
I think this aspect is what makes it so hard to love on/talk to my family members that are Christian fundamentalists….they can hardly get past the fact that I am going to hell and have to spend hours telling my why and how that I can’t get a word in edgewise. Not that I’d want to, in a way, but sometimes I wish that they’d stop talking about “God this” and “God that” long enough to actually hear that very God speak in their lives. I totally got what Melanchonika was saying in that regard- fundamentalism can be/is a distraction from fully engaging in faith. So I sit there quietly and listen to the rant and love them as much as I know how (and pray, and pray). But I often leave emotionally spent and discouraged.
Posted by molleth on June 24, 2008 at 10:27 am
Joy, good stuff.
Posted by The Mystery Ball in My Abdomen and a New Family Member « adventures in mercy on June 30, 2008 at 6:43 pm
[...] June 30, 2008 by molleth So, whaddya know. I guess the stabbing tearing knife-jab feeling I had when I was hitting the ball last week really was a stabbing tearing knife-jab feeling. I go in tomorrow to have a look, hopefully, at [...]
Posted by jason on August 6, 2008 at 8:25 pm
i have been saved over 10 years but in the past 5 years i was diagnost with siezure disorder and for over a year know i have bad racing thouts and sometimes doubt my salvation why do i feel this way when i know god is real i think it the fear of death becuse my siezures do terrible things to my mind.
please give me advice
Posted by molleth on August 6, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Jason,
That must be so difficult, physically, mentally, and spiritually. I’m in no place to give you advice but would recommend that you talk to a few people that seem to really love Jesus, that actually know you in a face to face way. In the meantime, please know that God’s love for you is bigger than even your own mind’s ability to love Him back. We know that Scripture says He is merciful and that He knows our human weaknesses, our human state. When we doubt Him, He is still faithful back.
Posted by Headless Unicorn Guy on November 21, 2008 at 11:46 am
Growing up, I pictured true Christians (that would be us) worshipping in barns and other hide-outs, while the evil fake Christians (that would be the Catholics) ran the so-called church for about 1500 years or so until Luther came out of the closet and set us all free. I pictured that because that’s essentially what I was taught.
You know, Molleth, that is the exact same history claimed by the Mormons, JWs, and a lot of fringe groups (including the Wahabi & Salafi on the other side of the Islamic Wars): Our One True Faith immediately fell away into Great Apostasy and everyone until Our Group Was Founded were false believers bound for Hell; then Our Group Recovered The Original Faith And Are The Only True Believers.
Posted by molleth on November 21, 2008 at 12:48 pm
That’s so true, isn’t it. “We Are The Special Ones” is certainly a common theme/thread in human history at large.
Posted by Paul on January 1, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Molly,
This is a wonderful post and the comments certainly reflect the fact that it has touched a chord with many people. In my mainstream Church, our Sunday School class has been captured by a fundamentalist teacher. We didn’t know that when we invited him to teach. He disguised it well. Over time, he began working political issues into the lessons. Last Sunday, he opened up the broadsides with the “Bible is literally true in all parts”, “world is 5000 years old”, and “here’s exactly what will happen at the rapture and it’s coming soon.” When we tried to get him to leave a tiny space for doubt in his pronouncements, he cut us off and rebuked us.
Here’s the strange part. He has talked at length about the bitterness of his divorce (he will remarry soon and brings his fiancee to class). In our denomination (Baptist), the fundamentalists believe that you cannot be a Church leader if you have ever been divorced. I guess his desire to lead led him to us.